I will try to be succinct and give my opinion in one word. No. Actually verbosity may be better - hell no!
If there are automatic punishments as you spent most of 5 paragraphs saying it will be abused - badly.
If any consequence is solely in the hands of a GM as you backtracked to say in paragraph 5 well we don't need anything. Players can *always" petition GMs and GMs can *always* punish players when they think it necessary.
BamBam said: Ok ok rly against i see.. Hell will break lose then if nothing is done. But you all rather have that?
Creating some kind of bureaucracy won't solve the problem. In fact, it will be a problem in itself. It is the same concept of many modern game companies putting numerous "behavior" controls into game systems in an attempt to dictate what proper play policy is. It never works out, it always ends up kiling game play and being abused by the very people it was supposed to protect from. The only way to deal with this sort of thing is to have no such controls or systems, let the community police itself in most cases with only severe cases being something VR steps in on.
So many people who spend too much time on modern MMOs come here to warn of dire consequences. Maybe if enough of them spend time in a better community, they can change their way.
Or, we could assume everyone is a snowflake and protect them from everyone else. MMOs are social games. There is good and bad in every society. Yet, we still move on.
BamBam said: Any of you played any modern multiplayer game? Not to spread terror but.. It's really bad. Young generation have only one thing in mind, them self's and that is parred with no patience and a feeling if instant gratification. You old school folks will be shocked beyond your wildest dreams. Theres a reson systems like these is beeing used, and old school systems with simple report to gm won't work is pantheon is going to be a success the player Base will be to big to handle. And a report system is needed to filter the noise from gms. It's easy to yell NO just be aware what you say YES to also...
I think most games, even EQ at some point had a means to report issues. I don't have a problem with reporting tools (ie send a report, the GM investigates), rather the whole "auto report/commend" system is just asking for trouble. Like I said, let the community handle itself and then on extreme abusers, GM banning can suffice.
The only thing that will be a problem is if they allow anon pay sources and have FTP on all servers. With anon pay sources, a banned account won't slow people down and with FTP, there is no means to control it.
My hope is that server populations stay at a managable size where the community can police itself (if it is small enough, people won't get away with things for very long as word travels fast) AND servers are offered which do not have FTP access, as well as them requiring a CC to play. That would be wonderful and would go a long way to reducing the abuse out there. I mean, there is only so many names and CC's you can get, so people are going to run out of accounts eventually. The key is, VR has to verify an actual abuse and ban with extreme prejudice. If they are too laid back about such, the game may have some problems.
BamBam said: Any of you played any modern multiplayer game? Not to spread terror but.. It's really bad. Young generation have only one thing in mind, them self's and that is parred with no patience and a feeling if instant gratification. You old school folks will be shocked beyond your wildest dreams. Theres a reson systems like these is beeing used, and old school systems with simple report to gm won't work is pantheon is going to be a success the player Base will be to big to handle. And a report system is needed to filter the noise from gms. It's easy to yell NO just be aware what you say YES to also...
No company would use an automated player driven ban system, whatever they try to fight. It's too easy to use it for bad reasons.
Howering, assigning hidden thresholds at which the teams investigate the player behaviour, all in secret, might work somehow. But it's a lot of humanwork and it's what costs the most.
All the bad behaviours are led by matchmaking systems where other players are only a tool to your rewards and bonds are useless. Think about LoL which is a constant competitive environment where you rely on 4 other players for victory and various roles, but none of them are forced to play the game, neither are any of them a "future" player you game with as you will just click a matchmaking button for the next match, over and over.
It gets easy to blame, flame and harass people because there are virtually no need of them. The automated system will take care of anything you did and match you with other people, nonetheless. The generation moto is only a minor nuisance, the gaming industry and marketing policy built this generation over instant buys, instant benefits, and low long terme goals. That's what pantheon aims not to be, but something greater : A game you play a few weeks before beeing bored and out of objectives.
Yeah, that is why I think the community is better suited. There were many times in early EQ before SoE shutdown the main forums where someone would make a false claim about another, then several people would show up to dispute it and eventually in many cases, the truth would come out. As long as there is that means to deal with it, the idiots will find themselves very quickly in a bad spot and once they become a full on public problem, that is when it is easy to have a GM send them to bye bye land.
BamBam said: Ok ok rly against i see.. Hell will break lose then if nothing is done. But you all rather have that?
If the people in this thread could report you for your post, you would be banned. This is why it's a terrible idea.
There are tons and tons of posts on this subject with numerous responses from VR.
BamBam said: Problem is this is not eq, not Vanguard or eq2. Player mentality has shifted over the years. Maybe you are behaving and that's great, please continue upholding the standard. But it will be an issue that needs to be addressed one way or another. True automated system might not be the smartest, atleast it should only work for warnings or temp lockout. Longer bans and such should go through a gm. Leaving everything to the community ka defenatly not going to catch enough, bad behaviour will be rewarded and with time, then a "behaving" player into a greifing player, there a limit to how much **** one can take before it starts to spill.
Why should I get temporary kicked of the game if a guild shows up and simply doesn't want me interfering with their take over of an area ? Obtaining votes is one of the easiest method to claim "rights" in our human culture, as shown with politics and elections, so why should it be supported with means to be in Pantheon ?
BamBam said: Problem is this is not eq, not Vanguard or eq2. Player mentality has shifted over the years. Maybe you are behaving and that's great, please continue upholding the standard. But it will be an issue that needs to be addressed one way or another. True automated system might not be the smartest, atleast it should only work for warnings or temp lockout. Longer bans and such should go through a gm. Leaving everything to the community ka defenatly not going to catch enough, bad behaviour will be rewarded and with time, then a "behaving" player into a greifing player, there a limit to how much **** one can take before it starts to spill.
Why are you so hellbent on the idea that because we like "older" principles means we are not currently playing in other more modern games right now right there along all the "crazy young and selfish people" you seem to want to portray ?
I play a lot of different games. As do many others here. Not every game gets the toxic player base LoL does. This game will focus on PvE, patience, grouping and slower pace. By definition, the same people you're so afraid of probably even haven't heard of this game. And if they have they probably have very low interest because it's not based on instant gratification or quick matches that are done withing 20 minutes, where it doesn't matter how rude you are, because you're never gonna see them again.
No, bad behavior won't be rewarded with time, because people whose only purpose is to ruin things for others won't stick around much with so little tools to do so. And the few that do stick will have their reputation go around the server, and reported and banned.
It's very different when you need to play a lot for like a year to get to the top where you potentially can go and ruin a raid for someone. Most people don't have that kind of dedication. The few who do will be dealt with accordingly.
I just think you've been brainwashed by playing other games that are vastly different than this and think all games everywhere will be like that.
Just block people. What do you do in real life? Do you just ignore people you don't like or do you call the police everytime your feelings are hurt?
Edit: Also the game is only in pre-alpha and people are already discussing ways to punish fellow players. Maybe we could set the example to new players and show that the community is a positive one. If passers by come into the forums and see the top 2 or so threads at the moment are all discussing ways to punish the playerbase then it's not going to look good.
BamBam said: Problem is this is not eq, not Vanguard or eq2. Player mentality has shifted over the years. Maybe you are behaving and that's great, please continue upholding the standard. But it will be an issue that needs to be addressed one way or another. True automated system might not be the smartest, atleast it should only work for warnings or temp lockout. Longer bans and such should go through a gm. Leaving everything to the community ka defenatly not going to catch enough, bad behaviour will be rewarded and with time, then a "behaving" player into a greifing player, there a limit to how much **** one can take before it starts to spill.
I understand that attitudes have changed, but your idea? Seriously, it is EXACTLY what would lead to the foxes running the hen house.
No, not simply no.. but HELL NO!