As others have suggested, bards will need to be able to deal damage, likely through both basic melee skills and musical abilities. I'd like to see the bard's damage on par with a healer's damage potential. The bard really isn't in the group for their personal DPS, but rather their ability to greatly augment the overall group performance. Whether that be through augmenting the group's melee capabilities or spell casting capabaities, or through controlling the environment and mobs around them by using their Crowd Control or pulling ability.
To speak to the "jack of all trades" part of the bard class, they should be able to increase their personal DPS by singing damaging songs (but still not at the levels of a true DPS class), but at the sacrifice of not being able to maintain their other group buffs.
Basically what Kumu said. A solid answer. But as to the OP's question. The answer is yes! However, I would like to see them think outside the box a bit in how they approach the mechanics and the flavor of Bards in Pantheon. I wouldnt mind seeing them be more of a magic than a melee class. And do various types of sonic based damage with their instruments.
I think bards should do some damage, perhaps as much as others have said (about like a healer), because the catch is; the Bard is a force multiplier, and they will likely do their damage contribution while performing their normal duty of amplifying the performance of the party, whereas a healer for example would likely have to choose one or the other. Because of that, I think the Bard's damage output can be somewhat low and yet still viable.
Mathematically, I think bards should do melee damage below that of a tank. I think there are more meaningful things than just raw damage output that a bard can provide.
Negatives:
Positives:
So when thinking about the bard class, I think one of the greatest traits of this class is the overall utility; not the min/max of a given situation. While you may not need a bard to get by, a bard should provide a noticeable reduction in having to be perfect with every decision made, moreso than their overall damage contribution. I would go so far as to even say the damage multiplier they provide to a single group should not do greater overall damage than that of which another dps would bring. Otherwise, you risk the benefit that a dps player brings of their own volition.
shooj said:
- Potentially things like charisma / luck rolls / etc all buffed
It would be great for bards to instead of having the ability to take hits like a tank or deal damage like a caster their LUCK rolls are huge so they do get a good shot in from time to time and mobs do miss them more often when attacking. Being a low damage bard but getting more high hits overall would even things out a bit. Same with getting attacked. It made me think of one of the Super Hero movies (forget which one) where a female character had the ability of extreme luck so small things always happened in her favor.
Even have goofey stuff like maybe a Bard's charisma could affect the monsters as well so they are less likely to even try to attack them. (Orc think: Hmm that music sounds pretty, I'll kill him last!)
Nanfoodle said: I would love to see Pantheon do something different, like maybe a Bard spell weaver. Or make them ranged DPS with a bow.
Me too. The EQ "Bard" was too much of a "jack of all trades" because it was also the master of so many things if you knew what you were doing. In "some" situations I could out CC an Enchanter, out DPS (sustained) more than some DPS classes and even out tank non-raid targets (as far as holding threat and not dying). I went back recently to mess around and went and got my epic (since I never got it years ago); I was soloing dragons (to include Trak - who teleports you away if you remember... but Bard can solo it now). It would be nice if they were just a range CC class that used music as their "magic". But they will likely be the jack or all trades, master of all again. :(
Nanfoodle said: I would love to see Pantheon do something different, like maybe a Bard spell weaver. Or make them ranged DPS with a bow.
I'm not a serious stickler for realism by any means. But I feel that if I find myself playing a 2-handed instrument to maintain CC in combat AND adding a bit of damage with a 2-handed weapon (like a bow) simultaneously, I fear I will find the situation just a bit TOO ridiculous to believe.
Jothany said:I'm not a serious stickler for realism by any means. But I feel that if I find myself playing a 2-handed instrument to maintain CC in combat AND adding a bit of damage with a 2-handed weapon (like a bow) simultaneously, I fear I will find the situation just a bit TOO ridiculous to believe.
In this scenario, an easy solution would be for the Bard to use their "voice" as an instrument, while wielding a weapon (like in EQ) to deal damage; OR they could focus on CC and hold an instrument (instead of weapons) to provide improved CC at the sacrifice of reduced damage (because they can't hold an instrument and weapon at the same time - like in EQ).
Darch said:In this scenario, an easy solution would be for the Bard to use their "voice" as an instrument, while wielding a weapon (like in EQ) to deal damage; OR they could focus on CC and hold an instrument (instead of weapons) to provide improved CC at the sacrifice of reduced damage (because they can't hold an instrument and weapon at the same time - like in EQ).
Having Bards start with just singing, which they can do regardless of what else they are doing, would be just fine. As they level, they could find/craft/quest for different instruments, which would add bonuses to their songs. Perhaps at first they could get simpler, 1 handed instruments, which could be held in the offhand. At higher levels, more powerful 2 handed instruments would be needed in high end dungeons and raids. With them, it would be all song or all damage.
That I could work with.
