Forums » The Dire Lord

The correct way - let people specialize

    • 537 posts
    October 19, 2018 6:13 PM PDT

    Darch said: Butted Mail vs riveted

    Not to totally derail the conversation, but as I was reading this, I had a moment of 'did he just say Buttered Mail?' and started to laugh. Then my mind kept going with it and said "Hmmm... if he butters up his Mail it makes him all slippery....". As you can imagine I had a nice quiet laugh to myself and thought I would share :-)

    • 932 posts
    October 21, 2018 4:54 PM PDT

    Haha.  Nope.  It says "butted", which is the concept of basically bending a piece of metal until its ends are "butted" together to make a ring.  Obviously these bent rings could easily be seperated with minimal pressure (to include ripping it apart with your bare hands as if it was cardboard) and of course any medieval weapon.  Riveted obviously used rivets to hold the ends of the "ring" together and required more skill which made it more expensive.  With that said, I believe this post was about how mail sucked compared to full plate and how some of us would love to see the DL's mail (exclusively/ not Ranger or SHM) include things like fiedl plate or breastplate which didn't have the protection of "full plate" but at least didn't allow people to be annihilated by a single piercing attack and looked WAY cooler than a frumpy metalic shirt.  I still say that the DL should be a DPS/Off-tank like the EQ berserkers and there will be no more debates about tank mitigation for the DL.

    This post was edited by Darch at October 21, 2018 5:11 PM PDT
    • 1825 posts
    October 22, 2018 1:51 AM PDT

    Hey, this topic isn't even about mitigation, don't summon Nscheffel or he will just make it one of his numerous "Warrior will be the supreme tank and everything else will be weak"-post.


    I'm cool with mails featuring breastplates or such, however, I think we were used to mail beeing sub-par armor for a long time, and wow made this a specific point as tanks started to wear mail until they could wear plate and abandon it forever. Iron is Iron, even if the benefits are proportional to the technique used.

    • 35 posts
    January 11, 2019 10:40 AM PST

    There wasn't any butted mail in middle age (or extremely rare and really not the most common used type of mail) as it was very weak it was always riveted or welded by heating and hammering the rings but no mail (or almost none) were used by being simply butted.
    Butted mail only has really started to appear when ppl tried to imitate middle age armors, it wasn't a common thing from history.

    Armor were used as layers. The first layer is Gambeson (or some people called it padded armor because of RPGs) whish is very effective.
    Then they could add a mail on top of it.
    Then you could add plate on top of the mail.

    All armors were very effective but when you reached the plate level of protection you were literally unkillable unless you fall flat and someone takes a dagger (or rondel) to stab through the seams in the helmet or some weak points under the arms etc.

    Search in Google for "Norman Knight" and you will see that they really look badass even with only mail shirts (and Yes it was a very efficient protection). And if you think it wasn't; simply ask yourself why mail has been used for the entire middle age period if it was inneficient?
    People going to war did not want to die and would not carry something that does not protect them, even though it looks that way in most movies.

    This post was edited by Khraag at January 12, 2019 3:38 PM PST