Forums » The Summoner

Pet power speculation

    • 688 posts
    September 3, 2018 1:31 AM PDT

    I'm really curious to learn more about the summoner. To spend some of the waiting time, I'm just thinking how the known things may play out, and speculate a bit on them :)

    The summoner reveal mentions two ways to improve the power of our pets:

    - "Augment Arcamental" spells which buff a single attribute (Quickness, Solidity, Power, Energy)
    - Summoned weapons and armor ("These weapons improve the Arcamental’s effectiveness in various ways by improving its unique attributes")

    On first look, this seems a bit limited. Buffs and items usually improve a stat by a fixed amount. Effectively this means that the pet of a casual summoner would be as strong as that of a raiding summoner.

    So, what other factors could come into play here? I think the following would be possible:

    - the augment spells might give a fixed amount that is then improved by the caster's stats (as seen for some abilities in the recent streams)
    - that probably would not work for the summoned armor/weapons, but maybe there will be evolved/epic versions of those spells?
    - maybe there are dropped items usable by pets, that are better than the summoned ones? *
    - maybe there will be pet focus items that improve the pets stats directly or make the buffs more effective etc.

    * Of course this raises the question, do pets leave a corpse when they die so you can reclaim the items? This would also be nice to know for "regular" use, as summoned pets tend to die frequently. A pet death would sting if you had to resummon pet, resummon armor/weapons and rebuff the pet every time. Related: How long do the buffs last? If you use two buffs for your pet, is the chance that your pet dies high enough that it might die on every rebuff?

    • 2207 posts
    September 3, 2018 9:07 AM PDT

    I suspect that the summoned weapons will let you change the default damage profile of the pet. VR has said many times that we will need to match our damage type to that of the NPC we're fighting to be most effective.  So facing skeletons you would use a blunt weapons vs a piercing, for example.  I would suspect that the default damage of the pets will be blunt. So if you hand them a summoned sword they now use slash.  Summon them a spear or dagger and you get piercing.

    I'll be that the various buffs you can put on your pet will have similar durations to that of player buffs. And I doubt that the pet will leave a corpse to loot because if it did, you could, conceivably, hand your pet incredibly powerful player armor and weapons to use them over and over.  The pet dies and it will just vanish.

    • 630 posts
    September 3, 2018 5:34 PM PDT

    Don't forget the possibility of your gear factoring into pet strength. Since there won't be any official specializations, it's possible that gear will have stats that let you specialize in a way. For example there may be items with a bonus to a specific pets damage or survivabilty. So you might find a helm that has +100 Titan HP. Or a Bracer that has +20 Haste for Zephyr. Thus depending on what items you collect you can specialize in which pet will be most powerful for you. All speculation of course, but possible.

    • 688 posts
    September 3, 2018 11:18 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    I suspect that the summoned weapons will let you change the default damage profile of the pet. VR has said many times that we will need to match our damage type to that of the NPC we're fighting to be most effective.  So facing skeletons you would use a blunt weapons vs a piercing, for example.  I would suspect that the default damage of the pets will be blunt. So if you hand them a summoned sword they now use slash.  Summon them a spear or dagger and you get piercing.

    I'll be that the various buffs you can put on your pet will have similar durations to that of player buffs. And I doubt that the pet will leave a corpse to loot because if it did, you could, conceivably, hand your pet incredibly powerful player armor and weapons to use them over and over.  The pet dies and it will just vanish.

    Good call, I didn't actually think about different damage types from the summoned weapons, but it would make sense. To switch out weapons, I wonder if there'll be a pet inventory, or if you just hand them weapons and it will use them. As you said, an inventory (or pet leaving a corpse) would allow players to put powerful items on their pets. If pets can use other items than the summoned ones, that is.

    And yeah, pet buffs will probably last as long as regular buffs...that's why I'm a bit concerned. Having more than one buff causes a chance for the pet to die already. Even if that chance is low, it will mean that you will lose a pet "for nothing" just on rebuffing once in a while. Or you always only cast one of the stat buffs on it, period.

    • 688 posts
    September 3, 2018 11:21 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Don't forget the possibility of your gear factoring into pet strength. Since there won't be any official specializations, it's possible that gear will have stats that let you specialize in a way. For example there may be items with a bonus to a specific pets damage or survivabilty. So you might find a helm that has +100 Titan HP. Or a Bracer that has +20 Haste for Zephyr. Thus depending on what items you collect you can specialize in which pet will be most powerful for you. All speculation of course, but possible.

    Yeah, this would be great! Specific summoner items that work as focus items. There's lots of possibilities, I think this may be the best route to make summoners stronger (by making their pets stronger ;)

    • 82 posts
    September 4, 2018 4:40 AM PDT

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9274/bazgrim-s-08-17-18-mmorpg-com-game-space-game-show-summary

    Will Summoner pets benefit from the gear of the Summoner?

    The summoner does have their own arsenal of abilities, such as nukes and utility spells that they can bring to the table themselves. So their own gear advancement will affect those things. But what’s unique about the arcamentals is that they have their own stats that are going to be unique, and it's going to be part of the sense of progression as they develop their arcamentals. The stats are Solidity, Power, Quickness and Energy and you can improve those by giving them gear. As you level up, you’ll be able to discover some more gear-related abilities to further improve them. Summoner pets will have their own equipment inventory. So as a Summoner, it’s almost like you're advancing two characters at the same time. If the pet dies, all of its gear won’t just disappear. They’re permanent improvements, so you’ll want to keep all of your pets well geared.

    I read this a few times, but I am still not sure if I got it right. The pets have their own inventory. Also each type of pet seems to have its own inventory. What can we put into the pet inventory? Only summoned items, that are improved by special abilities as well as summoner stats that improve the effect of the summoned gear? Or is there lootable pet gear? 

    Even if I don't understand everything, this post seems to be part of the answer to the question how pets power can be improved ;) 

    • 688 posts
    September 4, 2018 4:55 AM PDT

    Thanks, Matrulak, I had not seen that post! It will be good if summoners don't have to re-summon all gear if a pet dies. And it sounds like the gear summoning spells may evolve.

    I'm very curious to learn more now!

    • 630 posts
    September 4, 2018 7:46 PM PDT

    Good catch Matrulak :-)

    I'm guessing that when it comes to Arcamentals's individual gear inventory these are for actual gear that drops, rather than summoned gear for your pet. My guess is that each of the Arcamentals will have their own item type restrictions just like classes, and they will be able to use any item from that type. For example, the Titan may be able to wear Plate while the Zephyr might be restricted to leathers. It's not impossible that you will find Arcamental only special items, but I'm guessing while you level up, you will be giving your pet the same types of items that a player would be using. So your Zephyr might be sporting the same 'haste belt' that the rogues in the group is using.

    It's also possible that pet's will have a special item slot for a Arcamentals only item type. So like a special Ward item type or something, where only Arcamentals use Wards.

    • 143 posts
    November 4, 2018 9:12 AM PST

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Good catch Matrulak :-)

    I'm guessing that when it comes to Arcamentals's individual gear inventory these are for actual gear that drops, rather than summoned gear for your pet. My guess is that each of the Arcamentals will have their own item type restrictions just like classes, and they will be able to use any item from that type. For example, the Titan may be able to wear Plate while the Zephyr might be restricted to leathers. It's not impossible that you will find Arcamental only special items, but I'm guessing while you level up, you will be giving your pet the same types of items that a player would be using. So your Zephyr might be sporting the same 'haste belt' that the rogues in the group is using.

    It's also possible that pet's will have a special item slot for a Arcamentals only item type. So like a special Ward item type or something, where only Arcamentals use Wards.

    I could see a bunch of different ways that could work... I thought we would be able to use both summoned gear or gear that drops..... I really like the idea of pets having special slot for arcamental only type gear... that could be very interesting....

    I think we will be able to summon... for example... a dagger and we could give it our pet or a playe if it has more damage... or they need a magical weapon to damage to a magical beast...

    not sure though

    • 630 posts
    November 4, 2018 12:25 PM PST

    Nytman said: I think we will be able to summon... for example... a dagger and we could give it our pet or a playe if it has more damage... or they need a magical weapon to damage to a magical beast...

    Yeah they already have said that you will be able to summon items for your Arcamental to use. I think though that these will be used mostly as a temporary thing until you can get your Arcamental items from drops and such. So as your example, you may summon a dagger that has basic stats, and then when you find a decent weapon from a drop that is better than your summoned dagger your Arcamental will use that.

    But as you level up, you may find an upgraded 'summon magical daggern' spell that makes a better version dagger that's better than the dropped one your Arcamental has been using. So you might switch back to using the summoned dagger again for a while until you again find a higher level weapon for your Arcamental to use from drops.

    And since this will not be limited to just weapons, you may have your Arcamental using an array of both dropped and summoned items depending on which ones are better at the time.

    • 143 posts
    November 5, 2018 5:38 PM PST

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Nytman said: I think we will be able to summon... for example... a dagger and we could give it our pet or a playe if it has more damage... or they need a magical weapon to damage to a magical beast...

    Yeah they already have said that you will be able to summon items for your Arcamental to use. I think though that these will be used mostly as a temporary thing until you can get your Arcamental items from drops and such. So as your example, you may summon a dagger that has basic stats, and then when you find a decent weapon from a drop that is better than your summoned dagger your Arcamental will use that.

    But as you level up, you may find an upgraded 'summon magical daggern' spell that makes a better version dagger that's better than the dropped one your Arcamental has been using. So you might switch back to using the summoned dagger again for a while until you again find a higher level weapon for your Arcamental to use from drops.

    And since this will not be limited to just weapons, you may have your Arcamental using an array of both dropped and summoned items depending on which ones are better at the time.

    Sounds good can not wait to get my hands on game to try it out =)

    • 158 posts
    November 6, 2018 10:07 AM PST

    I wonder if your pet's items return to your inventory when you unsummon them/they die, or if the items are simply lost. It would be amusing to see a raid geared pet geared in raid items if you get the items back.

    Also if I recall corrrectly you can keep casting your pet buffs with increasing effect but each time has an increasing chance for the Arcamental to be destroyed. I wonder how long I will spend pushing my luck for pet buffs when I go to camp some exp. Haha

    • 1 posts
    May 14, 2020 2:05 PM PDT

    I was Excited when I heard We could equip Items on the Summoners Arcamental. But now as I see it, its only summoned items to the Summoned Creature that is possible. I really hope Im wrong, and theris a chence to find Arcamental related Items, recepies, spells or something like that to empower your summoned Arcamentals Anyone who knows mre about this ?

    • 461 posts
    May 16, 2020 6:11 PM PDT

    Honestly, if they allowed the Arcamental to have a paper doll in a second tab that flips from the Summoner paper doll. In it has all the equipment slots as a player does but at 50% or 75% effectiveness. This allows you to equip your arcamental in a way that you see fit. The gear can be specific. Earth uses Plate or Chain, Wind uses Chain or Leather, Fire uses Leather or Cloth and Water uses Cloth. As for weapons, Earth can use shields and 1-handers or 2-handers, Wind uses Daggers or other other 1-handers. Fire uses Bows and Staves. Water uses Staves or Scepters and Shields.

    The only downside is people may be upset as they all have to compete with the Summoner for loot in group. Then again, groups can have a directive that NBG excludes Pets and if something does drop and it's not an upgrade to anyway, the Summoner could use if their primary pet of use could use it.

    • 143 posts
    May 19, 2020 4:29 AM PDT

    Janus said:

    Honestly, if they allowed the Arcamental to have a paper doll in a second tab that flips from the Summoner paper doll. In it has all the equipment slots as a player does but at 50% or 75% effectiveness. This allows you to equip your arcamental in a way that you see fit. The gear can be specific. Earth uses Plate or Chain, Wind uses Chain or Leather, Fire uses Leather or Cloth and Water uses Cloth. As for weapons, Earth can use shields and 1-handers or 2-handers, Wind uses Daggers or other other 1-handers. Fire uses Bows and Staves. Water uses Staves or Scepters and Shields.

    The only downside is people may be upset as they all have to compete with the Summoner for loot in group. Then again, groups can have a directive that NBG excludes Pets and if something does drop and it's not an upgrade to anyway, the Summoner could use if their primary pet of use could use it.

    True... but, I know that people get salty becasue they want to sell it... I find that when everyones bags are full thats when you can start picking up items for your pets... I just wonder how this will all work because they will want summoners to open portals so they can sell and come back as well....

    • 2917 posts
    May 19, 2020 9:48 AM PDT

    Pretty sure they don't/won't use player equipment based on what has been said by VR. Sounds like they will have their own loot drops in the world and the summoned stuff from the summoner. 

    • 461 posts
    May 21, 2020 4:11 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Pretty sure they don't/won't use player equipment based on what has been said by VR. Sounds like they will have their own loot drops in the world and the summoned stuff from the summoner. 

    If that's the case, using EQ as an example, they would drop and be Mage specific. A bit like Mage only gear where typically only Mages in group typically loot unless either there's no Mage in the group or the Mage or Mages don't need the drop in which case, it would be up for 'greed' and sold on the market unless it was NoDrop.

    I think that may be what they end up going with if this is the case but opens up Summoners to requiring much more loot for their character and subsequent pet and at the same time, saturating loot code with a lot of loot variability or clutter for a single class. While a bit of a problem, it may be the best option. If I can think of methods around that I'll return to the topic but let's hope VR is aware of the situation and are covering for the possible complications.

    Then again, that could be one of the reasons for the delay.