Im just sitting here and i had a thought, what if abilities like kick for example actually launched enemies back depending on stats and stunned them buying time for a proper CC to be set. I would say this should be a tank thing only, or a monk i guess they have super strong legs anyhow just a thought you know that immersion thing everyone loves.
I remember that in EQ1 all your attacks would push your target a very slight bit. In a huge raid you could very rapidly push an enemy across the room just from all the normal attacks. This is why raids usually parked the tank in a corner so that you couldn't push the enemy out of position. I wonder if Pantheon will have this as well.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:I remember that in EQ1 all your attacks would push your target a very slight bit. In a huge raid you could very rapidly push an enemy across the room just from all the normal attacks. This is why raids usually parked the tank in a corner so that you couldn't push the enemy out of position. I wonder if Pantheon will have this as well.
Pet push was particularly bad at times.
Keno Monster said:GoofyWarriorGuy said:I remember that in EQ1 all your attacks would push your target a very slight bit. In a huge raid you could very rapidly push an enemy across the room just from all the normal attacks. This is why raids usually parked the tank in a corner so that you couldn't push the enemy out of position. I wonder if Pantheon will have this as well.
Pet push was particularly bad at times.
Only for those that didnt know what they were doing. Shamans in EQ in a raid woud stare at the sun and all cast their dogs going the same way and blame push on the mages. Shaman pets pushed for tons more than mage pets. For mages, Air pushed the most, Water hardly pushed at all and earth pushed, but not as much as air and fire didnt push at all- but was a loose cannon (in the old days) because it would randomly cast every spell in its arsenal before going OOM and meleeing. However push, handled correctly could be strategically usefull. when mages got swarm I risked my life in one encounter by swarming and runing in a big circle around the monster. all the swarm pets in a circle pushed against each other and the monster didnt move. However if the monster had a bad AE and people were deing, sending a single file of swarm (like shamans staring at the sun and their dogs) could puch the monster practically to the zone line, buying some time.
Project gorgon has this. It's... kind of a weird end result.
What I mean by that is that you can kick your enemies away from you, but they don't actually stop attacking. Melee range is so close to kick-away range, they start pathing back immediately, swinging all the while.
So, it ends up just being a visual animation with no other value. It's almost a pure flavor mechanic, except for one thing:
If you root, freeze, or otherwise incapacitate your enemy, THEN kick/push them away, this has value, because the creatures are then outside melee range, and can't start pathing back. Especially true when you can do this, then take a half step back. It gives you a brief moment of respite during combat.
So, it's great, but there are so many ways it goes bad. Kick a mob off a bridge (it brings the entire dungeon to you) or kick it off a cliff, it's potentially gone forever. (no access to the corpse), or you kick mobs through walls because of no collision checking (too expensive!), or you kick them and it goes too far and aggros others by predictive proximity (the server thinks the creature _might_ have gone through the wall, so it did, however briefly). I mean yes, you can address some of these through content arrangement, but what a pain in the ass for designers.
I think the line between "kicking them away looks cool" and "kicking them away actually does anything" is a very fine line that I have yet to see done well, in 20 years of MMOs.
Now, if kicking them away applies a status, and that status can be exploited exclusively by other-class group members? Awesome. Great. Do that moar! :)
*snags turkey club sandwich* "What? 3-second rule!"
I'm not sure about a knockback but something to note.
In the early years of EQ, a critical hit would also generate a very small (1m) knockback with a chance to interrupt on the target. During raids we would often use the "push" to help interrupt mobs - for example, having all the melee DPS stand on one side of Lady Vox to try and interrupt her heals.
I wouldn't mind seeing some nuance like this. Though if it were up to me, different weapons would have different effects. Some might push, some might pull, some might trip, etc.
well i mean this would be for enemies that within reason could be knocked back, but really the knockback is just the cusp of the creativity that could evolve from minor actions like these, like im thinking mages could have a relocate spell that could be used on enemies or allies type of deal, adds some support and some dynamic, the only problem with this type of stuff is how they would manage mobs being moved off cliffs etc, but if they could the idea itself would be amazing to see in an mmo, obviously you dont want them to be super crazy 40 yard range abilities but maybe 10 or so, lot more possiblities than just monks
Be careful what you wish for, if they code in these abilities expect the mobs to have them also.. I cant wait to get knockbacked off a ledge.. hah
As a tank in EQ push was annoying, especially combined with monsters summoning, but simple enough that it wasnt too frustrating. A mob would generally run right back to me as a tank after it was pushed/knockbacked because of strong aggro, or I could run the mob to where I wanted it because of strong aggro. What would be frustrating in pantheon is group members pushing enemies all over the place such that I 'miss' the enemy with my own kick/nuke/CC/ae debuff because the mob has been moved..
Generally I think 'keep it simple stupid' with regards to abilities. The less complex the gameplay mechanics, and the closer we keep it to D&D tradition in an exciting 3d world with cool loot, the less likely the gameplay will frustrate players.. and that means more players and more success.