We've not seen all the spells yet so maybe the druid has some more buffs that aren't revealed yet. But even if they don't I think they will still be capable of performing the healing role they are intended to fill. When I first read the druid I kinda felt like it makes the perfect back up / support healer though with "Reverberation".
the imbue traits the druid offers also allows for flexibility, being able to buff different players with different imbue traits some of which are pretty unique like Swiftgill's fin.
I think Thunderpaw's resilience is going to be extremely powerful as a buff for tanks, the Stamina and Armour class offered is good, but the "nearly impossible to stun with physical attacks." will be a life saver for many tanks, I don't tank myself (I play healers) but my friend who only plays tanks was very excited when they heard about this buff. The druid also has a version of it in Panther's Claw that I imagine physical DPS classes will love too. Immunity to stuns is very powerful ofcourse this all depends on how many creatures actually stun but if there are any important fights with stun mechanics this could make the druids buffs shine.
I think the druid will fill its roll as Main Healer and/or support healer really well, they seam to have the tools they need. Thunderpaw is like a Health + AC buff with the added effect of Immunity to stuns.
Stamina = Health you can hear them talking about it in this video :here: https://youtu.be/qnQD5xoQADE?t=13m42s
Edit:
Also while this is tongue in cheek, I think Vinewoven Bridge should be counted as a buff haha, I'm going to be playing a Cleric but I will want a druid in my party if there are any jumping mechanics involved I fall off everything and I'd love to have a little bridge to walk across to save me haha.
I'm not sure as the description doesn't make it very clear but Verdanfire Vines may be a buff as well, the skill does not mention a duration.
"You grow a network of mystical vines around the members of your group. These vines will reflect X% of the physical and magical damage your group members receive back at the attacking enemy."
Sounds like the Everquest druids "Thistlecoat" or the WoW Druids "Thorn" buffs.
Well the "imbue trait" buffs are most likely mutually exclusive, as said in the "Harness Trait" description. It makes sense that for example "Panthra's Claw" and "Thunderpaw's Resilience" can not be used together, but it seems annoying that it also wouldn't be possible to combine one of these with "Black Wolf's Swiftness". This seems like a further limitation to the druid. But we don't know yet...it may work differently and we will have to wait and see.
Sarim said:Well the "imbue trait" buffs are most likely mutually exclusive, as said in the "Harness Trait" description. It makes sense that for example "Panthra's Claw" and "Thunderpaw's Resilience" can not be used together, but it seems annoying that it also wouldn't be possible to combine one of these with "Black Wolf's Swiftness". This seems like a further limitation to the druid. But we don't know yet...it may work differently and we will have to wait and see.
I think this is right, in that you wont be able to use more than one Imbue Trait per target as per druid (Maybe two druids could cast two different Imbue traits on the same target - I hope so) So a druid buffing a tank may look like :-
Imbue trait: Thunderpaw's Resilience
Verdanfire Vines
It does seam however if we are limited to a set amount of skills on our hotbar, that maybe the druid will get a separate bar much like a stance bar that contains all their Imbue traits allowing them to buff without needing to take up space on their hotbar.
As people have noted, the reveals aren't a complete list of abilities. I took their intention to be to showcase those abilities that give the best indication of the flavour of that class. Legit to ask, of course, but I wouldn't assume Druids will be lacking just from the reveal info.
Another thing to note, the druid appears to be more DPS oriented than the other healers, so it would make since they wouldn't be as strong at something else the other healers are. That being said, we don't know raw numbers on anything either, so their buffs could just be that much more powerful so they're limited to how many they can use at once.
Kellie said:
It does seam however if we are limited to a set amount of skills on our hotbar, that maybe the druid will get a separate bar much like a stance bar that contains all their Imbue traits allowing them to buff without needing to take up space on their hotbar.
I was thinking the same thing, and I really hope this is the case. Come on, VR, you guys know this is the way to do it! :)
kelenin said:Another thing to note, the druid appears to be more DPS oriented than the other healers, so it would make since they wouldn't be as strong at something else the other healers are. That being said, we don't know raw numbers on anything either, so their buffs could just be that much more powerful so they're limited to how many they can use at once.
^ This
Unless I'm misunderstanding the reveal it seems you place the tree which does the majority of your healing for you; you then decide if you need to augment the healing with certain abilities or DPS depending on the situation. So if druids are bringing heals and dps and they get one strong buff that is prob more than enough to make them comparable to heals + buffs...
We'll see though once all the skills are out and testing has been done; I'm sure it will work out in the end. It looks like they've got some nice ideas on how to differentiate the healers from each other so far at least.
Remember that the percentages these buffs increase our stats will make a huge difference. The druid has multiple abilities that increase healing on targets. That is huge.
The druid actually looks like more of a healer than the shaman to me. The shaman is dps support + slow = able to heal in most cases.
BamBam said: Hi so I noticed that the druid only can apply one harness trait to each grp member. This i assume is the druid main line of buffs and the trait seems like a usefull buff, but compared to the shaman it seems to only be as strong as 1,5 of their 7-8 buffs. The druid do get a damage shield aswell, but thats not rly the same as buffing char. Raw stats. The shaman and cleric Both have multiple buffs. That seems very potent. The shaman can buff almost all stats, resist, atk/cast speed, crit, armor, hp rgn, The cleric seem to get a very strong ac and max hp buff and another ac buff on top of that. How beneficial do you think buffs will be in pantheon, and will it be needed for a grp with no cleric / shaman to get their buffs els where or before hand? I know that we only see a small amount of spells, but it paints a picture. The shaman = the best stat buffer and overall very usefull toolkit. The cleric get the raw ac and hp line and will definitely be able to protect he's party against physical damage. And the druid lacks behind with limited harness trait duo to only one trait being available on each target. The druid do bring damage shield and utility buffs, as levitate, water breathing, light source. I just don't see it as usefull as the other healers toolkit. What do you all think? will ac, max hp, stat buffs be so usefull that they are a must have for any party? Apart from the druid harness trait, what buffs you like to see them get, to balance it a bit?
You harness the resilient nature of the Grizzly Bear’s frame. This Trait increases the Stamina and Armor Class of your target and makes them less likely to be stunned by physical attacks. This is a massive buff, not only do tanks gain in ac plus hp like a cleric buff would do they also give a resistance to physical stuns. plus they have other buffs granted i understand they can only cast one harness on a target, but i remember in eq1, their buffs were good but like 80% of them weren't as powerful as the clerics, and their stat buffs was basically nonexsistant. so i believe this was in a sense a fix to that so they wouldnt get stat buffs, or the same type of spell line as a cleric hp/ac buff so when it came to grouping/raiding the druids have their place in their, and this harness spell line in a great reason to have them in any situation. plus im sure "their kit" to be actually seems to be quite powerful. not saying it stronger than the shamans, but i do like the druid's kit more than the shamans.
A second healer? i don't see that at all in their kit i mean yeah granted they have reverb, which links up well with other healers, but i look at it has mixing well with paladins, sk's as well, plus they can heal their entire grp with one ability with they are close enough to it, probably not the whole way to full but healing is healing, they absorb damage, they do so much in their kit when it comes to keeping the group alive that it actually is a bit powerful, plus we don't even know the numbers that they could be healing for, and to alrdy call a druid a second healer in a grp is completely premature and unfair to a class.
Riahuf22 said:A second healer? i don't see that at all in their kit i mean yeah granted they have reverb, which links up well with other healers, but i look at it has mixing well with paladins, sk's as well, plus they can heal their entire grp with one ability with they are close enough to it, probably not the whole way to full but healing is healing, they absorb damage, they do so much in their kit when it comes to keeping the group alive that it actually is a bit powerful, plus we don't even know the numbers that they could be healing for, and to alrdy call a druid a second healer in a grp is completely premature and unfair to a class.
Perhaps I'm wrong. But reverberation and Hirode's presence seems like they're going to be so powerful (especially if reverb. is "smart" healing), it's hard to fathom that the druid's own heals won't have to be sub par to compensate. Reverberation basically doubles all other healing done in the group... at least if it makes the heal jump at 100%.
Lets say Hirdoe's presence is 20%. Stick a cleric and a druid in a group, and the cleric is basically going to be outputting 220% of their normal healing. It's basically like you get a free 3rd healer in the group.
Talking about expectations of balance or imbalanace at this point is inherently based on a ton of assumptions. I don't think this discussion is fruitful at this point in time.
@Zoltar - While we are just working on an interpretation of reverberation as written by Joppa in the reveal, I believe you are misunderstanding how it works. It is my expectation that it is the druid's heal effect that gets spread and not the external heal that triggers the reverberation. So if the druid has a HoT on the target, then the cleric heals the target, then the druid's HoT is what reverberates out to a new target and the strength of the ability is then based on how strong the druid's HoTs are. If the ability turns out to be as you described, then it certainly seems extremely powerful, which means it probably isn't that way.
Ainadak said:Talking about expectations of balance or imbalanace at this point is inherently based on a ton of assumptions. I don't think this discussion is fruitful at this point in time.
@Zoltar - While we are just working on an interpretation of reverberation as written by Joppa in the reveal, I believe you are misunderstanding how it works. It is my expectation that it is the druid's heal effect that gets spread and not the external heal that triggers the reverberation. So if the druid has a HoT on the target, then the cleric heals the target, then the druid's HoT is what reverberates out to a new target and the strength of the ability is then based on how strong the druid's HoTs are. If the ability turns out to be as you described, then it certainly seems extremely powerful, which means it probably isn't that way.
Passive Ability. When an ally is under the effects of any of your healing abilities and they are healed by another player in the group, THAT healing effect will jump to another group member as well. To me this sounds like it would be the other healers healing ability, for one, one of the druids healing effect can only be active on one target at time. but either way even if it is the Druids it would still be excellent if the scaling in decent, like just saying if a cleric at lvl 10 and heal for 100hp, but a druid has a HoT that take lets say 18 to run its course but heals for 200 (maybe more depending on how many hots they get.) plus another reason i think its the other healers is becuase if they do get plenty of HoT's than which one get transfer to the other target or is it all of them? But like you said we will figure it out.
Riahuf22 said:Ainadak said:Talking about expectations of balance or imbalanace at this point is inherently based on a ton of assumptions. I don't think this discussion is fruitful at this point in time.
@Zoltar - While we are just working on an interpretation of reverberation as written by Joppa in the reveal, I believe you are misunderstanding how it works. It is my expectation that it is the druid's heal effect that gets spread and not the external heal that triggers the reverberation. So if the druid has a HoT on the target, then the cleric heals the target, then the druid's HoT is what reverberates out to a new target and the strength of the ability is then based on how strong the druid's HoTs are. If the ability turns out to be as you described, then it certainly seems extremely powerful, which means it probably isn't that way.
Reverberation
Passive Ability. When an ally is under the effects of any of your healing abilities and they are healed by another player in the group, THAT healing effect will jump to another group member as well. To me this sounds like it would be the other healers healing ability, for one, one of the druids healing effect can only be active on one target at time. but either way even if it is the Druids it would still be excellent if the scaling in decent, like just saying if a cleric at lvl 10 and heal for 100hp, but a druid has a HoT that take lets say 18 to run its course but heals for 200 (maybe more depending on how many hots they get.) plus another reason i think its the other healers is becuase if they do get plenty of HoT's than which one get transfer to the other target or is it all of them? But like you said we will figure it out.
Yea, I'm not really seeing how any of the druid heals would work with reverberation under Ainadak's interpretation. The only individually targeted healing ability druids have that also has a duration (meaning that an ally could be under the effect of the ability when healed by another player) is the seed skill. And the seed can only be active on one target, regardless of how many players have seeds planted on them. All of the other heals are either direct heals or group wide heals.
I'm very impressed with the Druid reveal. It seems like an extremely complex healing class, but with a lot of versatility and damage. I think it will play similar to a Fury. I think a good player can likely solo heal a solid group, but I agree with the thought line that the Druid looks like it will shine as a secondary healer with DPS abilities. My wife is locked in on the Druid, and she's looking forward to planting her little tree for heals and then going nuke happy with the lightning line of spells. She played a Fury in EQ2 and loved it, and she's thrilled with the reveal here.
I also agree with the majority in this thread that the Reverberation ability bounces another healer's spell, not the Druid's. I've zeroed in on the Paladin, so I'm seeing some nice aggro and spot healing synergy with the Druid due to the heal reverb. My little heal is a minimal cost Wrath builder, so if I can toss that around to build Wrath and aggro due to double healing, that might be the way to go.
zoltar said:Riahuf22 said:Ainadak said:Talking about expectations of balance or imbalanace at this point is inherently based on a ton of assumptions. I don't think this discussion is fruitful at this point in time.
@Zoltar - While we are just working on an interpretation of reverberation as written by Joppa in the reveal, I believe you are misunderstanding how it works. It is my expectation that it is the druid's heal effect that gets spread and not the external heal that triggers the reverberation. So if the druid has a HoT on the target, then the cleric heals the target, then the druid's HoT is what reverberates out to a new target and the strength of the ability is then based on how strong the druid's HoTs are. If the ability turns out to be as you described, then it certainly seems extremely powerful, which means it probably isn't that way.
Reverberation
Passive Ability. When an ally is under the effects of any of your healing abilities and they are healed by another player in the group, THAT healing effect will jump to another group member as well. To me this sounds like it would be the other healers healing ability, for one, one of the druids healing effect can only be active on one target at time. but either way even if it is the Druids it would still be excellent if the scaling in decent, like just saying if a cleric at lvl 10 and heal for 100hp, but a druid has a HoT that take lets say 18 to run its course but heals for 200 (maybe more depending on how many hots they get.) plus another reason i think its the other healers is becuase if they do get plenty of HoT's than which one get transfer to the other target or is it all of them? But like you said we will figure it out.
Yea, I'm not really seeing how any of the druid heals would work with reverberation under Ainadak's interpretation. The only individually targeted healing ability druids have that also has a duration (meaning that an ally could be under the effect of the ability when healed by another player) is the seed skill. And the seed can only be active on one target, regardless of how many players have seeds planted on them. All of the other heals are either direct heals or group wide heals.
The wording to me implies it's the druids heal that jumps - I believe abilities like this:
You ask Hirode to release a surge of Verdanfire into your ally, healing them for a moderate amount.
You ask Hirode to stand beside your target ally. While she is near, whenever this target receives healing, Hirode will also heal the target for X% of that amount.
Are the ones that will jump; also it's not a full reveal might even get a few more skills that work with it. If it worked with other classes it would prob be stupidly strong /w clerics delivering big direct heals, but who knows how they are balancing it all.
Thallium said:The wording to me implies it's the druids heal that jumps - I believe abilities like this:
Hirode's Flame
You ask Hirode to release a surge of Verdanfire into your ally, healing them for a moderate amount.
Hirode's Presence
You ask Hirode to stand beside your target ally. While she is near, whenever this target receives healing, Hirode will also heal the target for X% of that amount.
Are the ones that will jump; also it's not a full reveal might even get a few more skills that work with it. If it worked with other classes it would prob be stupidly strong /w clerics delivering big direct heals, but who knows how they are balancing it all.
For reverberation to work, the target has to be "under the effects" of the druid's healing spell. Hirode's Flame is a direct heal. It heals for X amount instantly, and then is gone.
zoltar said:Thallium said:The wording to me implies it's the druids heal that jumps - I believe abilities like this:
Hirode's Flame
You ask Hirode to release a surge of Verdanfire into your ally, healing them for a moderate amount.
Hirode's Presence
You ask Hirode to stand beside your target ally. While she is near, whenever this target receives healing, Hirode will also heal the target for X% of that amount.
Are the ones that will jump; also it's not a full reveal might even get a few more skills that work with it. If it worked with other classes it would prob be stupidly strong /w clerics delivering big direct heals, but who knows how they are balancing it all.
For reverberation to work, the target has to be "under the effects" of the druid's healing spell. Hirode's Flame is a direct heal. It heals for X amount instantly, and then is gone.
Hmm... under effect of any of your healing ABILITIES... perhaps if you have a shield (Verdanfire Seed) on someone it can jump. As that skill is listed under healing abilities.
You plant a mystical seed within your ally. This seed protects the target by absorbing up to X damage based on your level. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal your target for the amount of damage it absorbed. Y% of the effective healing your target receives will be refunded to you as Mana. You may apply a Verdanfire Seed to as many targets as you like but only one seed may be active on a target at a time. Once the seed blooms and the healing is applied, you may not cast this ability on the same target for Z duration.
It is really hard to tell, but I have a strong feeling it wont jump allies abilities for some reason. Could be wrong though. Also not all skills revealed so there might be other things that function with reverb.