Forums » The Cleric

Rez and xp

    • 2 posts
    May 1, 2019 4:50 AM PDT

    TheBus88 said:

    Bankie said:

    TheBus88 said:

    Bankie said:

    When I used to play Lineage 2 Bishops had the best % rez when it came to getting exp back. The Bishop was clearly the big boy healer and the person you wanted giving you a rez. The other healers had other, different, utility spells so they were still desired in group, they weren't totally useless. I think an SE would give you 20% of your lost exp back while a Bishop could get up to 80% much like the Cleric here. I honestly think they are going to go a similar route here.


    I sure hope not.  Class performance based on equal player skill should be no greater than 5% and since an out of combat rez requires zero skill to perform, there shouldn't be that great (80-20 as you state lineage was) of a difference or any difference at all in my opinion.

    I am REALLY hoping they avoid the "big boy healer" or "big boy *insert class here*" issues they had in EQ and other games were plagued with.  Having a single healing class be the only one to give an exp rez will not only clearly be an issue but will also clearly lead to class favoritism and shunning of the healing classes that cannot peform an exp rez.

    Over in the Druid forum someone touted the idea of a Resurection Tree skill to go along with the Verdanfire Tree and I not only think it is a great idea but should also be an out of combat exp rez equal to that of the Cleric and Shaman (though they have to come up with an out of combat rez for Shaman that fits lore/makes sense for the class).



    So you want every class type to be the same but with a different hat? 


    As I mentioned before the Bishop had the better direct heals and rez spells but they had zero buff spells. As a result this meant other healing classes that did get more utility spells were also still desirable. Differfent scenarios call for different classes and dynamics. If you are going into an encounter with the idea of "I need the good rez" you are already setting yourself up for failure. Go into the encounter thinking "do we have the proper group make up to get this done efficently without anyone getting killed?"


    Again, I want to avoid "big boy healer".  I don't want the "desired but not preferred" in a group either.  All healers should be preferred when a group needs a healer, the "well yeah there's a Druid LFG but he can't even rez let's wait for a Shaman or Cleric" should simply not happen.


    I played a Paladin in EQ and up until end game I had fun, but Paladins were not the "big boy tanks" and while somewhat "desired" in groups, they were not "preferred".  And when it came to raids you rarely if ever used a Paladin as tank.  This eventually led to my Paladin not being fun to play because as the game got harder people wanted the "preferred" "big boy" tank and I sat around LFG forever, see a warrior LFG and get a group instantly.


    This is a natural human response.  No ammount of "making the proper group" is going to overcome the fact that if you have three healing classes that can all heal but one gives an exp rez, that that will be the preferred class and lead to shunning the other two classes.  Each one of the Pantheon healing classes is described as "Healer, Support, Utility" and each one CURRENTLY (emphasis) has healing, support and utility spells but only one CURRENTLY has an exp rez.  One doesn't even have an ability to rez at all yet, which is very concerning to me.


    No ammount of "making the proper group" can make up for the dozens of other things that can go wrong and wipe your group, such as a train that isn't even your groups fault.  People know this and will always prefer the class that gives an exp rez all other things being mostly equal.  Utility means squat if you're all dead from a train.  Exp return and the ability to even rez from that wipe means far more at that point.


    But yes I'd much prefer us being able to do it all the same but "with a different hat" or play style than making a character to max level only to find out that they are not the "big boy class" and while desireable not preferred to group with and definitely not with a raid.  Sitting around as a "healer" LFG for 45 minutes, seeing the "big boy" healing class come and get a group right away is the exact opposite of what Pantheon should be.


    Did we not learn our lessons from 20 years ago with the original EQ?


    If there is going to be an exp penalty upon death and only one class can return that exp it is blatantly obvious whch class will be the prefered healer.  Solutions are simple, remove exp penalty and accrue exp debt that cannot be restored by a player, removing the need for exp rezzes or give all healing classes the ability to exp rez.  Anything else will clearly lead to class favouritism, if a member of the class has a restraint the others don't it will be avoided, 100% human nature.


    Then Cleric's and Shamans should also get group gate spells right? I mean Druid's as a healing class has them, so to be fair the others should too. Wouldn't want to have a druid prefered over anyone else because they can heal, rez AND gate.

    This post was edited by Whisperingeye at May 1, 2019 4:51 AM PDT
    • 158 posts
    May 1, 2019 7:46 AM PDT

    There's far less elitism over x type of character for a role then you make it out to be. For raiding this is another story because usually raids require x amount of roles what can do certain things. But for everyday grouping it's not that hard to find groups if you are a friendly player with a good reputation. I've played DPS almost exclusively from the start of EQ and through many other MMORPGSs and never had issues finding groups. Join a guild if your online socialization skills are not up to par. Learn to play your class decently so that you are not a burden to a group since that could affect your reputation. These things really help. 

    That being said, I don't see any harm in equal rezzing amongst healer types, but if there isn't, you can ask a character with the premiere rezz to rezz you even if you aren't grouped with them. I used to do that in EQ during the race to 60 especially for Kunark. Exp felt so slow from 50 to 60 as I recall it and I died a couple times along the way and wanted a cleric rezz because as people may recall, the difference between a 56 or 58 cleric rezz ( I think that was the break point ) was hours of gameplay and why set yourself back when you could just have someone rezz you. Again, this falls back on making friends along the way. 

    • 105 posts
    June 15, 2019 5:38 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    LucasBlackstone said:

    By whole day, I was picturing 4 to 8 hours of playtime, but either way 1 hour of playtime lost isn't a big deal in an MMO where your playtime is meant to be hundreds of hours between levelling, questing, raiding, and whatever else you like to do. It may take you much longer to get the playtime in at only 1 hour per day but if that is all the time someone has to play, it is what it is.

    While I agree with you in principle, I will bet the average player does not think about such things in a long term approach.  They focus alot on the short term:  How am I doing right now or how was my night?  Did I advance or not tonight?  And if they really only can play 1 or 2 hours a night and 50% of their efforts are wiped out they will log off for the night very pissed off.  And if it happens again and again the odds of them quitting just keeps climbing to 100%.

    And all that needs done to significantly reduce the odds someone will quit is just to give the 3 priest classes the ability to cast an XP rez.  Not too much to ask for such a benefit to the entire playerbase.


    And then you need to give all 3 healers gates because otherwise druids will be preferred.  And then you'll need to give druids and clerics something to keep shaman from being preferred.  And so on, and so on, until all 3 are exactly the same class, possibly with different ability names/graphics, possibly not.


    Note that I wouldn't be averse to such a scenario because I firmly believe there is no realistic way to make multiple classes "different but equal" so there will always be a preferred option meaning 2/3 of the people that play them will "lose" at the selection screen.

    • 247 posts
    June 28, 2019 7:44 AM PDT

    If death is suppose to be punishing, why are we even getting rezs with experience return. If you die you should be punish for it, not expect to have a healer make that punishment lesser. I'd prefer if the cleric rez did not give experience back, and nor should any other rez.

    With all the healers being able to fill main healer rolls I find it odd that only the cleric will be rezing in raid wipes. I don't want to be the sole person rezing because the raid is filled with Druids and Shaman that sit there twiddling their thumbs while the few remaining clerics have to do all the heavy lifting.

    However if they take away rez exp from clerics they need to improve the rez in other ways and make it worthwhile as our general tool set is lacking compared to Druids and Shaman, the only thing clerics have going for them is higher HPS while having significantly worst Healing per mana spent and lacking a proper area of effect heal. Below is an example of healing taken from the druid stream and cleric stream, both using their rank 25 skills.

    (Hirode’s flame) 1.5s cast 6s cooldown heals 439 cost 10 mana = 58.5 Healing per second = 43.9 Healing per mana

    (Celestial Dawn) 2.5s cast 1.5s cooldown heals  337  costs 38 mana = 84.2 Healing per second = 8.8 Healing per mana

    Id like to see the druids mana cost raised and the cooldown reduced to bring them more in line with the clerics output and sustain. The other option is to reduce the cost of celestial dawn.

    Sorry getting side tracked:-
    Tldr:: No one should have rez exp, as it makes death less scary, and I don't want to see lazy druids and shamans not rezing during raids.

    This post was edited by Kellie at June 29, 2019 7:48 AM PDT
    • 498 posts
    June 28, 2019 8:04 AM PDT

    The way I  have always felt about rez xp is that it's so appropriate for the Cleric because it simulates the feeling of some old games where the party had to seek out a priest to be resurrected.

    Without rez xp, I don't see the Cleric as anything special and I certainly would not seek one out.

    Furthermore, I consider it a utility like teleportation by wizards and druids.