Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Walled Off Content vs Risk and Reward

    • 74 posts
    July 3, 2018 10:17 AM PDT

    As I understand it, Pantheon will implement a system that will deny players from reaching certain areas if they do not have the proper items equipped. In some instances, if conditions permit, rather than seal off areas completely, players should still be permitted to explore and attempt to tackle things within the environment. Ie: In blistering cold conditions, suffer slow, creeping cold(20% reduced attack speed to your party) (spell fizzles increase 20%, damage to party increase 15%),  or permanately freezing your character until you find a heat source or another player can create a fire. The point being the less 1 dimensional a situation the better. It introduces more choices: ie: do we want to attempt to survive in this area while taking on enemies with this added exposure and penalty, or do we want to come back when we've got the necessary equipment. I think it will add a huge element to the game that will grant players more choice, more risk vs reward, and a better gaming experience. Your thoughts?

    • 769 posts
    July 3, 2018 10:47 AM PDT

    Genuine question: Where does it say we'll be walled off from certain areas if we don't have the necessary equipment? 

    • 2886 posts
    July 3, 2018 10:51 AM PDT

    I assume you're talking about the Climate system but you seem to misunderstand it a little bit. Because the way you described how you hope it will be is in fact exactly how the Climate system will work. (At least according to the last time they did a stream on it) It's not an artificial wall. You can absolutely attempt to enter a Tier 5 Frigid climate for example, but if you don't have any acclimation, you will take large amounts of damage and probably die very, very quickly. At that point you'll realize that in order to do any meaningful adventuring there, you'll have to find a way to acclimate yourself to that climate. On the other hand, if you're trying to enter a Tier 1 Frigid climate without any acclimation, you may just suffer a movement speed penalty and/or take damage a lot slower. It's up to you whether you can deal with that or if you should go and acclimate yourself first to negate the penalty.

    And keep in mind that equipped gear won't be the only way to acclimate yourself to different climates. In fact, it probably won't even be the primary way. But I'm sure we'll hear more about that eventually.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at July 3, 2018 10:59 AM PDT
    • 74 posts
    July 3, 2018 12:00 PM PDT

    Thanks for the info Baz, I was drawing from a play through video with CohhCarnage I watched in which, if I remember correctly, the party could not travel across a bridge due to either wind or cold...it seemed like it stopped them dead in their tracks as damage taken would be incredibly high. Basically, I am pushing for a system that includes heavy debuffs, but doesn't kill the group out right.  In that particular instance, I'd much rather see the wind possibly knock them off the bridge to their deaths and then inside the area take heavier debuffs that will severely penalize them but not outright kill them.  I just want to encourage pantheon developers to include as much choice / risk vs reward as possible. This type of way of doing it would be interesting, because, what if, whatever item you're searching for in that treacherous zone is usually only acquirable at level x due to the acclimation necessary, but you realize, if you can brave the treacherous env without having to acquire the acclimation, you may possibly be able to get this item at level x-n. It adds an element of real choice and risk/reward that I think would bring a really cool element to the game.

    • 1095 posts
    July 3, 2018 12:11 PM PDT

    I'm sure there will be ways of getting a level 1 toon into places they shount be, if its just for the laughs so in that instance maybe you could have a Mage summon the player across the bridge or the EQ necro Plane of Sky hack where a player without keys would die on the first island and a Necro who does the keys to say 3rd island would then summon the corpse then rez the person, effect player is now where they shount be because they have no keys. The bridge scene was just to show off the system but level based MMO will always be gated in a way behind level requirements. The cool think tho about the climate system is they can make them do whatever they want so I would expect to see a variety of damage based say cold or hot temps/ toxic places then debuff areas as well.

    • 2886 posts
    July 5, 2018 5:19 AM PDT

    ghost7 said:

    Thanks for the info Baz, I was drawing from a play through video with CohhCarnage I watched in which, if I remember correctly, the party could not travel across a bridge due to either wind or cold...it seemed like it stopped them dead in their tracks as damage taken would be incredibly high. Basically, I am pushing for a system that includes heavy debuffs, but doesn't kill the group out right.  In that particular instance, I'd much rather see the wind possibly knock them off the bridge to their deaths and then inside the area take heavier debuffs that will severely penalize them but not outright kill them.  I just want to encourage pantheon developers to include as much choice / risk vs reward as possible. This type of way of doing it would be interesting, because, what if, whatever item you're searching for in that treacherous zone is usually only acquirable at level x due to the acclimation necessary, but you realize, if you can brave the treacherous env without having to acquire the acclimation, you may possibly be able to get this item at level x-n. It adds an element of real choice and risk/reward that I think would bring a really cool element to the game.

    Fortunately I think we're all in agreement about that here :) I see what you mean about that bridge in Amberfaet. But that is just one example of the climate system. And there were actually two climates in play there: Frigid and Windshear. It was the Windshear climate specifically that was preventing them from moving forward. But of course not every zone will have a Windshear climate blocking a zone entrance. That also may have been a high tier climate. Climates range in severity from Tier 1 to Tier 5. So if that had been a Tier 1 climate (or, like you said, if it had been a crosswind instead of a headwind) they would have eventually been able to make it across without acclimation. But of course it would be easier if they did. With so many combinations of climate types and climate tiers, not all will be so prohibitive. In fact, I'd guess that most won't. Many climates will require the Risk vs. Reward decisions you're talking about. One of Pantheon's primary tenets from the very beginning is "An expectation that with greater risk will come greater reward" (https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/game_tenets/) so you can rest assured that they are designing that into every aspect of the game, including the Climate system :)


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at July 5, 2018 5:21 AM PDT
    • 137 posts
    July 5, 2018 5:33 AM PDT
    I agree about not having walled off content. Let low levels creep into higher level areas and get destroyed. Always had my heart racing in eqoa running through high level zones hoping to outrun anything that aggroed.
    • 1281 posts
    July 5, 2018 8:47 AM PDT

    I don't have a problem with "sealed off" or "keyed" group zones as long as the keys are accessible by grouping.

    Now, if a zone is exclusively a raid zone, then I don't mind if the key is raid only achievable since non-raiders would not be going into the zone to group anyways.

    • 2752 posts
    July 5, 2018 10:55 AM PDT

    Depending on how loot is handled I don't mind walled off areas for some content. Otherwise we'd have max level players selling looting rights to top end no-drop items that low levels have no business having (or anyone that can't complete the content themselves). 

    • 363 posts
    July 5, 2018 12:45 PM PDT

    Didn't the devs mention the acclimation items could be crafted as well? or just found?


    This post was edited by Willeg at July 5, 2018 12:46 PM PDT
    • 844 posts
    July 5, 2018 1:30 PM PDT

    Bronsun said:

    Didn't the devs mention the acclimation items could be crafted as well? or just found?

    I think both, but I am sure that is an aspect that is still being formulated and fleshed out in alpha and beta.

    I am sure some will be craftable, some will require rare items/drops to then be crafted, etc.

    • 239 posts
    July 6, 2018 10:33 AM PDT
    / looks into crystal ball for the future.
    I see a player named Wig shouting " train to zone! sorry I didnt know that kobold conned red and could see invis.
    Lol
    • 137 posts
    July 6, 2018 1:21 PM PDT
    Ya, I forgot about that whole train thing..oops
    • 612 posts
    July 8, 2018 12:45 PM PDT

    SoWplz said: I see a player named Wig shouting " train to zone! sorry I didnt know that kobold conned red and could see invis."

    Haha... If he had time to type all of that out, he wasn't really in any danger :-) Normally, if a red conned mob saw through your invis and you were training to the zone, you don't have time to type very much :-) Unless it's a very open zone with no corners and you can just hit your auto-run hotkey, in which case it wouldn't be hard for you to swing wide around any groups to avoid training them.

    • 844 posts
    July 8, 2018 6:18 PM PDT

    Most serious EQ1 players, from the first golden years, had "train to zone" macro'd.