Forums » The Paladin

My input on the reveal

    • 74 posts
    June 14, 2018 12:31 AM PDT

    First off, I just wanted to say that I have voiced my initial thoughts on the class, but wanted to really take the time to read over it and put some real thought into the recent news. Before the release of this newsletter, I have been very vocial about expressing my thoughts, opinions of how I see the class. However, now that we have a glimpse into the class, my point of view is shifting. I rather take what information we have and give my thoughts, opnions and feedback on this, instead of throwing out there a theorycraft ideal or even what I view paladins should be. So here is my thoughts, suggestions, concerns.


    Combat resource:


    The only part of this that has me a little concern is the cap on 3 reckoning points. Hopefully, there is a way, or will be a way to get this a little higher, lets say 5, for the sake of this. The reason behind me saying that, is it looks good on paper, but without actually testing it myself, I feel like having to micro-manage my resource with such a thread-like-needle range, makes me feel like I will be spending more time tring to make sure I hit the right combinations of skills and abilities so I can use said abilities, without a little wiggle room for situations of “well that just happened”. Don’t get me wrong, not saying I don’t like the resource management style combat, just that from experience, having a little wiggle room there makes it feel a little better. Overall, again, without testing it myself, not bad, just hope theres a little wiggle room there down the road. A cap of 5 with some investment over the 3, I think is a good place.


    Available Armor/Weapons.


    After doing a quick google search of 1h edged weapons: (swords, daggers, rapiers, axes, “roughly”) left me a little disappointed. Paladins are known to typcially use swords, and mace-type weapons (1h blunts). I had expected to see a wider range of 1h opinions with limited 2h choices. 2h edged and blunt, fits! But with the lore the way I understood it, I had hoped that they had branched out and looked at other weapon types as protential tools against the Undeath. By keep them in the, 1h sword (edged) and 1h blunt area, yes this is your typical paladin, nothing new here move along, class. Personally, I love the idea of a 1h spear and shield paladin, but keeping them in the 1h sword and 1h blunt area is probably a safe call. I just hope there is diveristy in the different looks of weapons. A 1h maul, flair paladin does look cool. Not bad, but still would have liked to see more choices in weapons.


    Also, the other part that I was shocked at, was no ranged weapon. Personally, I had viewed that paladins get bows, Dire Lords get crossbows. I’ve played games where a paladin has a range weapon like a bow, and where they didn’t have access to them. As a tank, I prefer a range weapon to help pull. Yes, I know there are other classes out there that are “pullers” but there are moments when/where you can just do it yourself or you have to do it yourself. The reason behind a range weapon is generally better than a spell or ability, is they generally have a much short range, and a range weapon has more range. Had hoped to see some range weapon listed here, was actually shocked there wasn’t something.


    Featured Abilities:


    I will go over each one and give my thoughts on each.


    Sense Undeath - Pretty kewl, but feel like it’s just for show. Can this be a very small light source? IE is there some benefit to this, other than “oh look the paladin is sparkling like twilight.” effect?


    Venger’s Vow - Really nice! But I cannot recall, off the top of my head, a time where undead stunned outside of maybe spells. Undead typcially known for fear effects. Be nice to see maybe a “slight increase to resist fear effects by undead enemies” with this.


    Knight’s Persuasion - A pacify ability with a twist! Gives a reason to consider Charisma as a stats! Situational, can see this being a wipe saver, overall not bad. Will have to see during playing just how good this will be.


    Atone - Rez with a twist! This has been something that I personally have talked back and forth with for a while now. Even allows room for incombat rezzing! Overall good, my only concern is the reckoning points cap of 3 thing stated above.


    Fiery Aegis - Like the purging poison/disease effect along with knock down effect, but the wall of flame forward makes me go ehh…. Perhaps, instead a small aoe around the paladin would work a little better. Like an unleashing burst of energy effect. The “line” thing really has me thinking eh, because we dunno the distance of it’s range, nor how it will effect CC. Generates Wrath thou, so I guess that I am looking at this as one of the ways to build wraith up. Will have to see.


    Wrathful Aegis - I just want to state, that I generally dislike AOE abilties on a tank outside of party heals. I’ve played a paladin that had that and it really drove me to disliking it so much, that I took a few years off from playing any paladin class in any game because of the distaste that was left in my mouth. However, I really like this ability! My only hope, is that it doesn’t break CC. Just let it be a hate aoe generator. So I can build that hate up againsted CC without breaking CC.


    Brillant Aegis - Another Wrath generator, GREAT! Oh, it blinds… what how is blind being done in the game again? Seriously that is the question that I have at the moment. If it’s like everquest blind, then this will probably never be on my hotbar. But if it’s like any other blind ability that lowers their accuracy, makes it harder to hit me, without them running all over the zone aggroing everything, then this will be on my hotbar. Till we know more about “blind”, my opinion of this ability is on the fence.


    Golden Aegis - Yes please! Seriously not much more than I can say about that. Not too OP because you have to have a reckoning point to use.


    Lightful Avenger - this goes back to how I view the paladin, when against undead, the paladin is the weapon, not the weapon he used. So this fits right in there with that thought. On top of that, has a build in party bandage, perfect! That means that I don’t have to worry so much about having to fit in a heal or watch health as much as a tank. Something that really is hard to do in some fights. My only concern is the critical part of it, but that I will have to see when I can play it. Paladins in general from my experience don’t have the best crit anything.


    Venger Hymns - Auras, ok spot on! Seriously that how I read these as, auras. Devotion gives me a support when I’m not taking but have to help out the healers, stronghold sounds great for tanking while aiding my party! Justice, again, will have to see because of the crit attached to it.


    Evensong - Really not sure what to say here. I think, they are quick abiltiites you use before using another ability. Kind of support your next ability type thing. How good, useful, combinations, that come from this will have to come from testing and playing. Macros seems like a good fit here with these. Like seeing up a macro to activate one before throwing out a heal or something. Again, need testing, playing before I can actually say one way or the other on this.


    Melee Abilities:


    Incite - Taunt


    Fervent Strike - at first I was like eh, but with along side a few other abilities this could be really good at tanking. Will have to see.


    Lance of the lightful - Uh, need a bit more detail to be honest. Generates wrath so thats good. Has a high chance to stun fleeing enemies, that’s good. Does it do damage? Or is this a wraith generate ability, or something you want to use only when targets are fleeing? Will see.


    Lightguard - SPOT ON! This is what I am talking about! How long this is up, and how long till you can re-use, will see. Overall will probably be on my hotbar.


    Pommel and Cross - again with the aoe, will have to see. Probably not going to be on my hotbar thou.


    Glorified Self and Miraculous Shimmer - I’m just going to group these two together as they both seem to do the same thing just from different points of view. Overall, will have to see in testing. Great ideal, how useful ingame, I will have to see.


    Chastening Blow and Hallowed Assault - Again grouping these together. Like the skill, again my issue is with the cap of 3 reckoning points. Dispel with a twist, I’m ok with! How useful this will be overall, will have to see.


    Edict of Celestial Fury - Great for tanking, I’m hotbaring this!


    Edict of Celestial Force - Niffy, but will have to see how useful.


    Edict of Celestial Might - Sounds like a pull ability, with the lack of “range” weapon, this might be a good way to pull, but how much wraith it uses will have to see. Considering the lack of range weapon, and this being the first “range” ability/spells I have see, I wonder if this would be better without a wrath or generate reckoning point attached to it.


    Edict of Celestial Authority - Great, calls back to Everquest paladin stun spells! Hotbar yes!


    Healing Abilities -


    Oathflame - Generates wrath and is a light heal. GREAT! Great way to keep yourself alive, and when your tanking great for selecting yourself, healer, or someone else. Really like this!


    Arcing Light - Sounds great, reckoning generator, hell yeah! Uh, is the other 2 targets RNG, or does it go to the nearest two? Need more input, if it’s nearest two, then that would be a great way to help keep the dps going/help healers, if it’s RNG two ppl. Uh, I dunno. If it’s the two lowest in group, then I’m ok with it that way as well. Need more details, thou leaning towards good.


    Living Light - Party heal, hell yeah! Staple to the class and glad to see it still here!


    Glory and Honor - sounds like oathflames but based on your damage. Overall not bad, but worried that I will have to be “stance-dancing” my defensive target a lot.



    Overall thoughts:


    Overall well done! There some things that keep within the scope of what a paladin is, while adding in some news things and adding some twist to a few others. There are some areas, I am still concerned on, or on the fence about till I can actually test it for myself to see how it feels or how useful it’s going to be. Concern about the reckoning point cap, and the defensive targeting feel, but that might not be so bad once I get to play the class, will have to see. Did hope to see more use out of using a shield, which seems to be giving to a warrior. Which, I think their shield abilities fit with that class, but do hope to see some shield loving abilities that were not mentioned here. Was disappointed in the lack of range weapon and the narrow selection of one-handed weapons, thou. I’m ok with no range weapon, long as there is a spell/ability or two to make up for it. Seriously, there are moments, where a tank needs to pull or you don’t’ have someone else to pull for you, and it’s better for the tank to pull then letting someone else die. So hope that concern is looked at. As for the weapon, I do hope maybe a second look down the road before launch, if not, I do hope there are a wide diversity of weapon styles within these scopes. Flails, 1h maces/mauls, hammers, etc. Against overall, well done! Looking forward to playing my class, do some some of my thoughts, opinions and concerns will be taking into consideration. Thank you for taking the time to read this long post and o7 <3.  Also, sorry for any misspelling and grammer issues :P

    This post was edited by dayhjawk at June 14, 2018 12:36 AM PDT
    • 415 posts
    June 14, 2018 9:08 AM PDT
    Nice post!

    About the 3 recokoning points: the decision could make sense if we think of Paladins as always practicing some sort of restraint. This makes sense coming out of a cleric order. So having three reckoning points will put us also into a bit of a mindset of restraint, rather than berserk - we will have to be a little extra deliberate and aware of our attacks, never really losing full control and striking everywhere, just as a Paladin would be practicing.
    That being said, there seem to be enough ways to gain points, and the point-using abilities seem suitably powerful.
    • 74 posts
    June 14, 2018 12:47 PM PDT

    My concern is that I will be more focus on tring to gain and maintain those 3 reckoning points, then having combat/tanking, feel fluid/natural. I don't want it to feel like a combo system where I am having to focus on hitting the right combination of skills to do X and Y, rinse and repeat. Taking into account there are some abilities that are "situational" with only a small pool I think is going to make it feel like a mico-manage nightmare. Again, that is where my concern is, I think a little wiggle room might be better, but again, without playing/testing myself, I cannot say within 100% that is how it will be. This is just a rough look and a quick thought on it. 


    • 415 posts
    June 14, 2018 11:48 PM PDT
    Ah yes, thanks - I really dislike feeling somewhat forced into an optimal combo of abilities, too. Hopefully the gameplay is dynamic enough to penalize too much comboing.
    • 27 posts
    June 15, 2018 11:54 AM PDT
    After revisiting the abilities to see which ones actually require Reckoning Points to use them. None of them other than Hallowed Assault seem to be needed once per Pull. They are all very situationally based. Invulnerability, soft Mez on Humanoid, Rez, Dispelling strike, group heal. I know we are still partially assuming gameplay, but none of those abilities seem to be needed multiple times throughout a fight in grouping scenarios. Even within the resource description it says "Reckoning points to perform heroic feats during battle." We should not be performing Heroic Feats constantly.
    • 6 posts
    June 15, 2018 12:46 PM PDT

    I am not as eloquent or as knowledgable as everyone else here.  I read posts and I have to say I keep coming back to the paladin.  PLaying a paladin gives you the ability to keep a group alive.  Such diversity with healing, off tanking, pulling, stunning etc.  I know that Pantheon is going to be a new take on games past but in essence a Pally has the ability to make the difference betweengroup death or survivability.  The only other class I want to play is a Shaman but thabkfully my wife has picked that class.  We played for 4 years with that combo and had no end of groups.  Pally and Shaman rock and nothing please me more when a cleric goes oom and you have the ability to heal cc and make a diiference until the cleric is good. Nor pleases me more when you stand in the doorway whilst your group gets its s##t together.. Its  the character you play and like that makes a difference.  Too much talk about every class being great when its the group thats great.  Pick a char and have fun they all are but its what you like playing.  I for one cant play anything but a Paladin.


    I hope to see you all out there.  Do your best or die trying

    • 102 posts
    June 15, 2018 2:11 PM PDT

    After seeing how disappointing the DL class is going to be as a tank, I'm thinking Paladin might be the "CC/Tank" class I've always wanted to play.

    AE agro, a humanoid charm, invulnerability, images of yourself to offtank for a short time, pulling mobs to you, stuns, knockbacks. Seems like a class that can truly control an encounter.

    This post was edited by nscheffel at June 15, 2018 2:11 PM PDT
    • 198 posts
    July 22, 2018 7:49 AM PDT

    Personally I do not feel like the Reckoning point is anywhere near "threading a needle". You have a max of 3 but the highest cost spell we know of right now is 2 points, meaning you will always have at least a 1 point leeway. Having it be 5 points could lead to a balance issue where the Paladin would save up and then dump it all at once, especially 1 point cost spells, so you would have to up the cost of those 1 point spells, making it practically the same as a 3 point system really. Having to think about spending or not spending I think is good gameplay, and giving us too many points would take away a lot of the thinking on that part. 

    • 198 posts
    July 22, 2018 7:50 AM PDT

    Personally I do not feel like the Reckoning point is anywhere near "threading a needle". You have a max of 3 but the highest cost spell we know of right now is 2 points, meaning you will always have at least a 1 point leeway. Having it be 5 points could lead to a balance issue where the Paladin would save up and then dump it all at once, especially 1 point cost spells, so you would have to up the cost of those 1 point spells, making it practically the same as a 3 point system really. Having to think about spending or not spending I think is good gameplay, and giving us too many points would take away a lot of the thinking on that part.