Forums » The Monk

Monk reveal what do you think?

    • 771 posts
    May 24, 2018 1:32 PM PDT

    It comes down to implementation. Are they going to allow spells to generate the resource externally? Will we have to fight mobs to build chakra before we can possibly FD to split-pull?  Will they utilize a spell effect that blocks generation of resources? Will all abilities spend resources and then we net gain after the attack is completed? We need to playtest these new resources before we can be sure how they will work. 

    • 1217 posts
    May 24, 2018 3:32 PM PDT

    Zeem said:

    Have you ever playted a EQ monk? seems like you havent because on chain pulling the monk can spend in certain instances a few seconds hitting the mob for faction then off they go pulling. Example lower guk in eq. Long pull times and groups who deal decent damage will kill mobs fast leaving no time to build up gates to use certain skills.

    I feel like you are actually hurting your own arguement.  If you are only going to spend 4 or 5 seconds attacking each mob. Why should you be able to "dps burn" every mob.  Because that's what you would be doing if you started with max resource.  Run in drop your biggest damaging abilities and then run out.  It makes sense that a fighter would need to "set up" more powerful attacks and not just toss them out willy nilly.

    This is why you dont see most mma fighters or boxers slinging head kicks or haymakers without any set up.

    Idk, maybe I looked at it differently.

    • 675 posts
    May 24, 2018 11:46 PM PDT

    Caine said:

    Charkras are just a small element of a bigger picture when it comes to inner energy cultivation.  In the real world there is so much that goes into Qi Gong and all the forms of internal Martial Arts.  The Chakra system seems simplistic and lacks depth at first glance.  

    You'll probably have to seek masters out in the world and learn how to use each chakra. I doubt you'll just start out as a monk with full access to all chakras and never spend another thought about them :)

    • 1874 posts
    May 25, 2018 1:56 AM PDT

    Gauges are a clear indicator for "ramp up" love it or hate it, but I doubt as a monk you will be forced to only pull like it was in some EQ era.

    • 613 posts
    May 25, 2018 9:12 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said: I doubt as a monk you will be forced to only pull like it was in some EQ era.
    This will totally depend on Mob HP and Party DPS. In EQ1 if you were not chain pulling it meant your party sucked.

    I recall this one time I invited a friend to join our normal group... after a while of constant fighting our Cleric said "I'm at 10% mana"... So I pulled in another Mob and my friend started freaking out saying "The Cleric just said she's only got 10% mana, your gonna get us killed." at which point I explained to him, "10% mana is code for 'only pull 1 mob at a time instead of 2 or 3'" The Cleric gave him a grin and said "Exactly... I just was warning him to slow down slightly".

    Most of the time in EQ exp farming groups I didn't even do more than 1 flying kick before running back out to pull again. And many times I didn't even do any fighting. I could usually have a new mob or 2 arriving just as the first mob was dying. Sometimes I'd bring one in while they were still finishing up and park it in front of the enchanter to mez and then go get another one.

    As long as none of my pulling abilities are tied to Chakra I'll be happy. The one I'm worried about is Harmonious Bond since it's essentially the EQ1 Mend ability. With FD and Mend I hardly ever needed a heal. But since this is tied to Chakra it may be a PITA.

    • 1874 posts
    May 25, 2018 12:29 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    MauvaisOeil said: I doubt as a monk you will be forced to only pull like it was in some EQ era.
    This will totally depend on Mob HP and Party DPS. In EQ1 if you were not chain pulling it meant your party sucked.

    I recall this one time I invited a friend to join our normal group... after a while of constant fighting our Cleric said "I'm at 10% mana"... So I pulled in another Mob and my friend started freaking out saying "The Cleric just said she's only got 10% mana, your gonna get us killed." at which point I explained to him, "10% mana is code for 'only pull 1 mob at a time instead of 2 or 3'" The Cleric gave him a grin and said "Exactly... I just was warning him to slow down slightly".

    Most of the time in EQ exp farming groups I didn't even do more than 1 flying kick before running back out to pull again. And many times I didn't even do any fighting. I could usually have a new mob or 2 arriving just as the first mob was dying. Sometimes I'd bring one in while they were still finishing up and park it in front of the enchanter to mez and then go get another one.

    As long as none of my pulling abilities are tied to Chakra I'll be happy. The one I'm worried about is Harmonious Bond since it's essentially the EQ1 Mend ability. With FD and Mend I hardly ever needed a heal. But since this is tied to Chakra it may be a PITA.

     

    Yes and yes ! But as stated this will not be EQ and nothing includes that the DPS will make trash melt like snow in summer. I chain pulled too and sometimes I didn't attack much, but I hope the game will not be as much focused on pulling as it became during late stages of EQ (My pulling experience is mostly in PoP exp grind and PoP raids), a DPS should remain a DPS and a force you will capitalize on instead of sending him away all the time, if it ends up that way, better send the controller pulling as his DPS will certainly be lower.

    • 1762 posts
    June 7, 2018 10:31 PM PDT

    I'm a little bummed that they are making every class have some kind of mana system. I do not like the resource micro management mini games in games these days. Just let me do my thing. If people need to med for 5 minutes, fine, let's slow the pace, but I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about charging something up or what order some skill was activated in. I found the WOW rogue to be infuriating at times, for example. Just let me play. This is a game we're going to potentially sit down and play for 10 straight hours. It needs to not be tedious. People say the EQ combat system is too simple, and of course it's been 20 years and it needs to evolve, but not into a freaking arcade game like we see with every other MMO these days. Constant resource micro management gets so tiresome for me. I'd much rather have big breaks to recharge then have to cosntantly be battling some system in every fight just so I can be the best I can be. 


    This post was edited by Keno Monster at June 7, 2018 11:06 PM PDT
    • 1762 posts
    June 7, 2018 10:37 PM PDT

    Deleting the quote mess(these boards suck and reflect poorly on VR) and responding to nobody:

    Pulling was arguably the most powerful, most important, most impactful ability in EQ(note, when I say EQ I mean Launch to Velious).

    You could have a top group and a middle of the road group, and if the middle of the road group had a bad ass puller they could stomp the "better" group in both exp and loot. It wasn't min maxing DPS or heals or damage mitigation that was the most efficient way to farm or level, it was pulling. And when it came to raiding, holy cow, a puller could make a mistake that cost the team hours, or they could nail it. Need torpor? Gotta farm Juggs. You don't really even need a cleric, or an enchanter, or a real tank. But what you damn well need is a puller. 

    Games these days people wait around until their tank or healer show up. In EQ before my screen even loaded I had a chat window full of tells because people knew I got it DONE. Monks couldn't solo for crap. I could barely kill the lowest levels of sand giant at level 50. But people learned the power. They wanted loot, they wanted EXP, and a puller was the ticket. 

    Plus, pulling was such a thrill. Think of all the people we led around by their noses, who never learned the zones or their secrets, who never knew spawn points or spawn rates. Nobody knew zones better. We knew what was going to spawn, we knew where, and we knew when. Pullers were leaders. We'd tell people where to go and when. 

    I remember locking down spawn rotations with just a druid partner and being begged by full groups to let them in because I had a rotation set and knew exactly what was next. 10 mobs for my duo and 10 mobs for your team of 6. Now THAT is power.

    I sincerely hope pulling in this game captures that without being a tedious requirement of the job. But I love pulling. Love it. 


    This post was edited by Keno Monster at June 7, 2018 10:47 PM PDT
    • 30 posts
    June 15, 2018 5:19 PM PDT

    Gyldervane said:

    I thought the monk reveal was great overall. I really like the chakra system and some of the inventive strikes and poses. I'd be curious to learn if they have any utility abilities other than Feign Death. If not, I'm sure they'll still be a blast in combat.

    We haven't seen all of any classes abilities, but from what we know, I'm also underwhelmed in this department. Class looks great for combat, but kind of boring outside of it (so far). Compare it to the ranger who has all kinds of crazy tricks...

    • 1762 posts
    July 16, 2018 1:32 PM PDT

    Gyldervane said:

    I thought the monk reveal was great overall. I really like the chakra system and some of the inventive strikes and poses. I'd be curious to learn if they have any utility abilities other than Feign Death. If not, I'm sure they'll still be a blast in combat.

    I completely disgree. I'm sure y'all are shocked. I dislike the idea of the resource buildup-> spend mechanic. That isn't innovative, in my experience it's tedious. I hated the WOW rogue, for example. Monk has been by far my biggest disappointment in the class reveals, almost certainly because it is by far my most wanted class to play. I don't really see anything "inventive" in the release. 

    Also, a 10 second AC buff? That makes me smh. 

    • 49 posts
    July 24, 2018 8:09 AM PDT

    Keno Monster said:

    I'm a little bummed that they are making every class have some kind of mana system. I do not like the resource micro management mini games in games these days. Just let me do my thing. If people need to med for 5 minutes, fine, let's slow the pace, but I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about charging something up or what order some skill was activated in. I found the WOW rogue to be infuriating at times, for example. Just let me play. This is a game we're going to potentially sit down and play for 10 straight hours. It needs to not be tedious. People say the EQ combat system is too simple, and of course it's been 20 years and it needs to evolve, but not into a freaking arcade game like we see with every other MMO these days. Constant resource micro management gets so tiresome for me. I'd much rather have big breaks to recharge then have to cosntantly be battling some system in every fight just so I can be the best I can be. 

     

    I read through your posts in this thread and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would like to point out the following and see what you think...

     

    I am assuming from what you’ve written your idea of a good time on monk is the chain pulling; locking down camps and not being inhibited in doing so by a resource system/micro management.

    Looking at the class reveal it says the following:

    In combat, Monks will constantly generate Chakra as a percentage of the damage they deal. In addition, certain abilities will increase a Monk's Chakra by a certain amount when used.

    Some of the Monk's abilities will have a Chakra cost in order to be performed. Others will require a certain Chakra gate to be open and when used will expend all of the Chakra it has taken to open that Chakra gate.

    We then see that FD does not require Chakra

    Feign Death

    You stop breathing and fall to the ground, appearing dead to most creatures.

    Kata of the Wandering Wind also does not require Chakra

    Kata of the Wandering Wind

    You align your attacks with the flow of your Chakra, dramatically increasing your chance to Dodge and counter-attacking every melee attack that does damage to yo

    Monk will also get an ability to totally fill their Chakra

    Inner Fountain

    Through intense concentration and strength of will, you completely fill your Chakra pool, opening all 6 gates.

    And finally if you used Inner Fountain while pulling you can then use the new and much more powerful version of Mend

    Harmonious Bond

    Perfectly align your body and soul, instantly restoring 10% of your total Health, increasing your attack speed and restoring an additional 15% of your total health over a short time. (Uses Chakra. Requires the Gate of Joy to be open)

     

    These pulling skills do not require chakra other than the new mend which you could use inner fountain for… You even get more utility in Kata of the Wandering Wind. This I also only a partial reveal.

    So yes, there will be micro management of resources in order to do optimal DPS; but it seems pulling will just be about cool down management and good old positioning just like EQ

    So if all you want to do is be the best puller (which seems to be your focus) this reveal seems to show it will work almost identically to EQ but perhaps with even more utility and a bit more skill needed since there will be more cool downs to manage and abilities to use.

    • 1762 posts
    July 24, 2018 9:38 AM PDT

    Thallium said:

    Keno Monster said:

    I'm a little bummed that they are making every class have some kind of mana system. I do not like the resource micro management mini games in games these days. Just let me do my thing. If people need to med for 5 minutes, fine, let's slow the pace, but I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about charging something up or what order some skill was activated in. I found the WOW rogue to be infuriating at times, for example. Just let me play. This is a game we're going to potentially sit down and play for 10 straight hours. It needs to not be tedious. People say the EQ combat system is too simple, and of course it's been 20 years and it needs to evolve, but not into a freaking arcade game like we see with every other MMO these days. Constant resource micro management gets so tiresome for me. I'd much rather have big breaks to recharge then have to cosntantly be battling some system in every fight just so I can be the best I can be. 

     

    I read through your posts in this thread and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would like to point out the following and see what you think...

     

    I am assuming from what you’ve written your idea of a good time on monk is the chain pulling; locking down camps and not being inhibited in doing so by a resource system/micro management.

    Looking at the class reveal it says the following:

    In combat, Monks will constantly generate Chakra as a percentage of the damage they deal. In addition, certain abilities will increase a Monk's Chakra by a certain amount when used.

    Some of the Monk's abilities will have a Chakra cost in order to be performed. Others will require a certain Chakra gate to be open and when used will expend all of the Chakra it has taken to open that Chakra gate.

    We then see that FD does not require Chakra

    Feign Death

    You stop breathing and fall to the ground, appearing dead to most creatures.

    Kata of the Wandering Wind also does not require Chakra

    Kata of the Wandering Wind

    You align your attacks with the flow of your Chakra, dramatically increasing your chance to Dodge and counter-attacking every melee attack that does damage to yo

    Monk will also get an ability to totally fill their Chakra

    Inner Fountain

    Through intense concentration and strength of will, you completely fill your Chakra pool, opening all 6 gates.

    And finally if you used Inner Fountain while pulling you can then use the new and much more powerful version of Mend

    Harmonious Bond

    Perfectly align your body and soul, instantly restoring 10% of your total Health, increasing your attack speed and restoring an additional 15% of your total health over a short time. (Uses Chakra. Requires the Gate of Joy to be open)

     

    These pulling skills do not require chakra other than the new mend which you could use inner fountain for… You even get more utility in Kata of the Wandering Wind. This I also only a partial reveal.

    So yes, there will be micro management of resources in order to do optimal DPS; but it seems pulling will just be about cool down management and good old positioning just like EQ

    So if all you want to do is be the best puller (which seems to be your focus) this reveal seems to show it will work almost identically to EQ but perhaps with even more utility and a bit more skill needed since there will be more cool downs to manage and abilities to use.

    You read me well and make good points. 

    • 613 posts
    July 27, 2018 5:37 AM PDT

    Thallium said: stuff :-)

    I agree, pulling is probably going to be totaly viable even with this Chakra thing. As you said we might need to factor in the Inner Fountain / Harmonious Bond cooldowns in order to have a self heal while pulling. Back in EQ1 Mend was a 6 minute cooldown. If Inner Fountain and Harmonious Bond combo is useable every 6 minutes then it won't be much of a change.

    One thing that I did notice in the Druid reveal is the ability Imbue Trait: Panthra's Claw - Buffs Str and AC and makes them nearly impossible to stun with physical attacks.

    Back in EQ1 my primary cause of death was getting stunned while pulling. It got to the point where I dreaded that text appearing in my combat log "You are stunned!" It usually followed by "You have died!". I always told everyone "If I was immune to stun I'd almost never die!"

    So this druid buff might be my new favorite buff when pulling. Although, since druids are limited to 1 Imbue per person, that means you couldn't have Black Wolfs Swiftness (run speed) as well... unless you had multiple druids. So I might need to stack druids in my groups :-)

    • 12 posts
    August 9, 2018 12:10 AM PDT

    In the other latest class reveals, you see also some EPIC-Abilities in description. Any way VR can also update on monks-class? Also some news on "passive's" would be nice.

    Cheers


    This post was edited by TaskenDart at August 9, 2018 12:18 AM PDT