I really enjoyed the recent Hiveleader stream, but as I was watching I noticed something that really broke immersion for me. Starting around the 9 minute mark the are fighting in a hall with fire trenches. The trenches looked awesome and added great ambience. However, seeing characters stand in the fire and take no damage was really odd. Is this just an instance of it being Alpha and its not coded yet, or will you be able to stand in giant pits of fire without taking damage? I think simple things like this make the game an actual world verus a simulation.
Did anyone else notice the fire trench? Does it bother you or am I alone on this one?
They took damage, but it was really low, like 9-10 dmg, and it bugged me a lot, fire should hurt, it's hot XD. It's pre-alpha and it's a minor thing but I hope these types of envorimental hazzards deal high damae, fire, lava, acid, etc should hurt a lot.
jpedrote said:They took damage, but it was really low, like 9-10 dmg, and it bugged me a lot, fire should hurt, it's hot XD. It's pre-alpha and it's a minor thing but I hope these types of envorimental hazzards deal high damae, fire, lava, acid, etc should hurt a lot.
I agree, but they were stood over a small trench burning low, not atop a blazing bonfire. Office workers walk over hot coals during team building exercises ;)
Also, positioning in combat in anything but a simulation-style action RPG is only analogeous to what characters physically do in combat. If you needed to be behind a monster and there was a firepit there you wouldn't actually stand in it, you'd straddle it, but putting animations in for that kind of thing would be prohibitively hard.
I'm pretty sure, given VR's intentions on environmental effects being a serious mechanic, we won't be swimming in lava or even sub-zero water without serious repercussions.
Fire, lava, scorching, etc., damage should all be impacted by stat resist or the climate system.
The amount of damage you take right now in the game is pretty trivial becuase it's just a number there now to get that system working. At one time Kilson was backstabbing for 800 points of damage at level 7. The numbers change as it becomes a priority.
bigdogchris said:Fire, lava, scorching, etc., damage should all be impacted by stat resist or the climate system.
The amount of damage you take right now in the game is pretty trivial becuase it's just a number there now to get that system working. At one time Kilson was backstabbing for 800 points of damage at level 7. The numbers change as it becomes a priority.
Completely unnecessary nerf if you ask me, also, how am I supposed to stand in a fire pit while holding a flaming torch and bust out my dance moves if it burns me! lol :D
Agreed. I'm gonna guess this is more of a polish detail that they can add later in Alpha and Beta. They're still working on classes and more fundamental systems like that - even still fleshing out the Climate system. I think it would make the most sense to just make it a Tier 5 Scorching climate the exact size/shape of the firepot.
jpedrote said:They took damage, but it was really low, like 9-10 dmg, and it bugged me a lot, fire should hurt, it's hot XD. It's pre-alpha and it's a minor thing but I hope these types of envorimental hazzards deal high damae, fire, lava, acid, etc should hurt a lot.
Unless you're really acclimated to Scorching, which could mitigate a lot from my understanding....
Munk said:I really enjoyed the recent Hiveleader stream, but as I was watching I noticed something that really broke immersion for me. Starting around the 9 minute mark the are fighting in a hall with fire trenches. The trenches looked awesome and added great ambience. However, seeing characters stand in the fire and take no damage was really odd. Is this just an instance of it being Alpha and its not coded yet, or will you be able to stand in giant pits of fire without taking damage? I think simple things like this make the game an actual world verus a simulation.
Did anyone else notice the fire trench? Does it bother you or am I alone on this one?
Well in Everquest, if you fell into lava..you died a horrible burning death. Being that this is PRE-Alpha...the world is still being built, I'm sure once that is done to their satisfaction, all the little "realism" tweaks will be applied, along with combat tweaks and anything else that needs to be done. :)
Well, let's discuss the immersion a little bit. If it applies to players then it must apply to enemies right? In order for it to be real immersion that is. But EQ did this and at the same time fixed their mistake, with falling damage. I used to play a bard in EQ, until about level 20 when they fixed it. But, enemies used to take falling damage, my level 10 bard with a weak drum was able to grab level 30+ sand giants and run them around the dunes until the fell to death lol. It was pretty entertaining but at the same time broken. It was sad to see this go, and sure they could have some environmental effects like this and make sure they aren't OP against us or enemies, but it's really difficult to determine what is OP. That being said I think it would be unfair to have us burn and the enemies not, and if the enemies burn then i could get rid of a dps and just pull them into the fire pits and let the fire damage take care of them.
Now that being said, as long as the fire damage isn't like kill you in less than a minute or 2, then sure I'd be ok with taking the fire damage, i actually enjoy making my characters burn. The only other problem i have with it, is it could be used to exploit. I remember luclin, you could duel someone they could kill you and you'd get sent to bind point, pick up whatever items you forgot to bring like your emp weapons was the most common one for some reason, but emp SSRA needed special weapons to hit him, so we would kill whoever needed to go get theirs in a duel, then resurrect them back. EQ also fixed that one, and it was used because you didn't lose exp in a duel.
So exploits are another side of it we need to look at too. Can this be exploited? These sadly are the major concerns for every developer with immersion. Sure it brings that immersion in, but also brings the ability to exploit the game.
Dubah said:Well, let's discuss the immersion a little bit. If it applies to players then it must apply to enemies right?
No.
Edit: OK answer is a little short.. but not much else to be said. No it does not need to apply to both... life is not fair, nobody said it would be and nobody should expect it to be. I got used to that decades ago.
Fire TRENCH? really? Your complaining about a little trench? You kids these days!
Back in my days:
We would SWIM through lava in Sol A!
We would swim through walls of fire shooting to the sky to get kill CT!
We swim under frozen water to get to some goblins!
Damn, we did a lot of swimming huh?
SoWplz said:Fire TRENCH? really? Your complaining about a little trench? You kids these days!
Back in my days:
We would SWIM through lava in Sol A!
We would swim through walls of fire shooting to the sky to get kill CT!
We swim under frozen water to get to some goblins!
Damn, we did a lot of swimming huh?
well I don't know how much swimming my corpse did after it burned up LOL in the early days you had to petition a GM to fish it out. hehe
Zorkon said:Dubah said:Well, let's discuss the immersion a little bit. If it applies to players then it must apply to enemies right?
No.
Edit: OK answer is a little short.. but not much else to be said. No it does not need to apply to both... life is not fair, nobody said it would be and nobody should expect it to be. I got used to that decades ago.
You're right, life isn't fair, but immersion is what we are discussing, not life being fair, let's stay on the immersion subject, not life. Realistically this is the definition of immersion in case you don't know it -
state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.
So explain how life not being fair gets me deeply engaged or involved into a game?
Immersion, is simple, if a player has said problem, then enemies should too, that's how you get involved, that's how a game makes you believe it's real. I could understand if the enemy was highly fire resistant or something and not taking any damage, ok that would be immersing me. But a regular enemy no fire resistance standing in fire doesn't take damage, that would be unreal, therefore less immersing. I could play the life's not fair on everything in every MMO, because let's face it, some days RNG favors you and some days it hates you, but RNG can get me immersed, if implemented correctly like EQ did. However, along with immersion comes exploits, such as what I was talking about. Which leads to my point of, immersion can break the game and at the same time make the game.
But thanks for taking one little snippet out of the whole thing and addressing one sentence instead of everything I was getting at, it really proved your point.
Dubah said:Zorkon said:Dubah said:Well, let's discuss the immersion a little bit. If it applies to players then it must apply to enemies right?
No.
Edit: OK answer is a little short.. but not much else to be said. No it does not need to apply to both... life is not fair, nobody said it would be and nobody should expect it to be. I got used to that decades ago.
You're right, life isn't fair, but immersion is what we are discussing, not life being fair, let's stay on the immersion subject, not life. Realistically this is the definition of immersion in case you don't know it -
state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.
So explain how life not being fair gets me deeply engaged or involved into a game?
Immersion, is simple, if a player has said problem, then enemies should too, that's how you get involved, that's how a game makes you believe it's real. I could understand if the enemy was highly fire resistant or something and not taking any damage, ok that would be immersing me. But a regular enemy no fire resistance standing in fire doesn't take damage, that would be unreal, therefore less immersing. I could play the life's not fair on everything in every MMO, because let's face it, some days RNG favors you and some days it hates you, but RNG can get me immersed, if implemented correctly like EQ did. However, along with immersion comes exploits, such as what I was talking about. Which leads to my point of, immersion can break the game and at the same time make the game.
But thanks for taking one little snippet out of the whole thing and addressing one sentence instead of everything I was getting at, it really proved your point.
I'd say : Because ennemies can be tricked into using environment as an advantage against them, while a player won't. By doing so, the fairness would be inversed and putting mobs into lava or any other damage source to kill them faster would be used constantly.
Life can't be "fair" with mobs, because they only have an AI to rule their behavior, and for this reason most players will allways be more clever than then, and thus they need an extra "punch" to be viable oponents.