Forums » The Dire Lord

Dire Lord Ability Wish List

    • 52 posts
    April 1, 2018 11:54 AM PDT

    Many people believe that the dire lord will be getting some love at or after PAX East. Discussions on these forums, Twitter, and the like have seemingly ramped up on if the dire lord should have ability X, Y, and or Z. So I thought it would be fun if the dire lord community came together and talked about the top 5 abilities/skills/spells they want to see on the dire lord.

    For example, in the Dire Lord Lineage, Expectations, and Speculation thread the topic of, "Will the DL get feign death?" has been a hot topic. So if that's something you would like to see, include it in your three! I'll start things off with something a bit more generic. In no particular order:

     

    1. Lifetaps: I think this is going to be a given, per what I said in the Lineage, Expectations, and Speculation thread, and that's why it's on my list. I hope they are meaningful in the sense we aren't spamming them every global cooldown, strong enough to heal more than 1% of our total health, and perhaps there's some sort of condition or chain that allows player's skill to be integrated. Give me a nice big ole Harm Touch, a standard life tap, and maybe something that is a larger "tap" that also adds to my total HP and decays over time.

    2. Two-handed defense (tanking): To me, to bring in diversification to the tanks, I'm hoping the dire lord can tank well (if not best) with a two-handed sword. Maybe tanking with a two-hander is a smidge worse if you want crunch numbers, but as long as it's a viable option that would be wonderful. Again, many people gearing up for Pantheon seem to want diversity in the game. This is a simple way to bring it.

    3. Damage Over Time (DoTs): To me, it doesn't neccessarily matter if the damage is considered necrotic, shadow, psychic, cold, poison, or whatever. I just want to see this shadow knight spiritual successor to wield magic of some kind and destroy their enemies with over time abilities instead of nukes. I don't want to say I wouldn't mind a great nuke or two with an appropriate cooldown, but the idea of decaying enemies like a necromancer is what I picture. Give some flavor, though. I'd love to have different types of damage instead of it all being necrotic/shadow/dark.

    4. Utility Spells Embracing Lore: This is kind of board, so maybe I'm cheating at my own post? Hah! Anyways, if the dire lord is able to control life force of some matter, I'd love for them to be able to bring that to the group. Perhaps siphon health from enemies and distribute it to the group, and or make it difficult for enemies to do the same to the dire lord's allies. If the dire lord has some sort of power of necromancy for example, give them Resist Dark Evil Energy Stuff as a buff. Nothing excessive, but a meaningful buff or two for situations would be nice. I loved being able to lightly heal my group as a shadow knight in EverQuest through lifetaps.

    5. Feign Death: Okay, okay.For those that chat with me on Discord or Twitter know I generally play devil's advocate when it comes to FD. It isn't mission critical for me, so why is it on here? I think, at the end of the day, it helps bring in diversification to the tank role. The dire lord doesn't need to be the best puller (hello monk, bard, maybe even ranger), but having an assistant is what makes games like EverQuest and Vanguard great. It's fine for a class to be "second best" or "third best" at something, if done well and appropriately. In a group-centric game, it makes sure that groups can crawl through dungeons and pull mobs. It isn't so much for the class as it is for the sake of the game.

     

    I think we as the community will have some decent overlap, but I'd like to hear the edge cases and reasons to everyone's picks. Let's have some fun talking about this!

    • 655 posts
    April 1, 2018 1:27 PM PDT

    I loved both playing an SK and grouping with them in EQ.

    What I didn't like about the EQ SK was the almost exclusive and late inheritance of necro spells.  Due to stacking issues, this greatly reduced the SK's effectiveness if there was also a necro in the group.   I hope that the Dire Lords have their own spell line which is similar in lore perhaps to the necro, but unique in some manner.

    Lifetaps are a given as Faelor suggests.

    Would like to see some nice DoTs, possibly a snare and a maybe a fear.

    FD would be very nice to have.  Should have more than one class with that ability as a puller, as suggested, so we don't always have to have a monk in a group.

    • 52 posts
    April 1, 2018 2:30 PM PDT

    Celandor said:

    What I didn't like about the EQ SK was the almost exclusive and late inheritance of necro spells.  Due to stacking issues, this greatly reduced the SK's effectiveness if there was also a necro in the group.   I hope that the Dire Lords have their own spell line which is similar in lore perhaps to the necro, but unique in some manner.

    Hey Celandor! Just wanted to hop back on here quickly to reiterate that this is a really, really good point. I wouldn't mind a similar spell or two, but I also hope we aren't debilitated because of the class inheritence.

    • 15 posts
    April 1, 2018 8:58 PM PDT

    I remember SHDs could DPS fairly well, as long as their mana held out, by strategically casting spells between weapon swings.  Of course, the mana pool wasn't too big so it didn't last too long that way.

    Anyways, not sure I can pick 5 things.  I think the EQ1 analog of Dire Lord being a tank first and DPS second, as opposed to the paladin hybrid of tank first and heals second, would work just fine.  Warriors of course were even more of a tank and dps than SHDs, but had less utility and needed good gear to hold aggro.

    If necromancers aren't in the game, then Dire Lords are the necromancers, right?  No worries about sharing their stuff.

    • 655 posts
    April 2, 2018 2:19 AM PDT

    Boildown said:

    If necromancers aren't in the game, then Dire Lords are the necromancers, right?  No worries about sharing their stuff.

    Necros aren't expected to be in at launch, but they are on the class/race matrix.  I just made the comment in the hopes that the long-term plan wasn't to introduce the same spell relationship between those two classes once necros are introduced.

    One challenge of EQ was getting a replacement tank to your group when someone had to leave.  The SKs were more adept at navigating into a zone unassisted given their abilities to invis and feign death.  I always felt this was a nice ability that wasn't terribly OP, but made the SK significantly more interesting to play.  I hope the Dire Lord has similar skills.

    • 15 posts
    April 2, 2018 8:12 PM PDT

    Celandor said:One challenge of EQ was getting a replacement tank to your group when someone had to leave.  The SKs were more adept at navigating into a zone unassisted given their abilities to invis and feign death.  I always felt this was a nice ability that wasn't terribly OP, but made the SK significantly more interesting to play.  I hope the Dire Lord has similar skills.

    Oh yeah, absolutely.  Paladins and warriors had to have their hands held to get deep into a dungeon, while shadowknights could Invis / IVU / flop their way there.  And the "overthere hammer" (I forget its actual name) let SHDs get out of dungeons with a bit of risk (depending on what their was to proc it on), too.  Probably had the best mobility of classes that weren't a bind self class or bard.  I used to proc the hammer, and take the raft into TD and swim (or later, levitate) to the firepot room, and had it figured out which places it was a better idea to go there directly or use this method.  The fears of Faydedar were vastly overestimated, by the way. 

    So much of what made a SHD good was gear-based though.  Circlet of Shadows, "Overthere Hammer" (but at least it was just a rep grind and quest), the thing that proced an eye to lifetap (which I never got), the Lodizal self-haste quest thing, the thing from The Deep that let you self-shrink, and probably more that I'm forgetting.  How "good" you were in a lot of ways depended equally on what gear you obtained as your ability to understand and play your class.  I don't really mind it, but in this way the class was far more difficult than a rogue, for example, who could casual their way to an epic that was a top-3 weapon and had the rest of their utilty baked-in.

     

    • 918 posts
    April 3, 2018 12:39 PM PDT

    Boildown said:

    Celandor said:One challenge of EQ was getting a replacement tank to your group when someone had to leave.  The SKs were more adept at navigating into a zone unassisted given their abilities to invis and feign death.  I always felt this was a nice ability that wasn't terribly OP, but made the SK significantly more interesting to play.  I hope the Dire Lord has similar skills.

    Oh yeah, absolutely.  Paladins and warriors had to have their hands held to get deep into a dungeon, while shadowknights could Invis / IVU / flop their way there.  And the "overthere hammer" (I forget its actual name) let SHDs get out of dungeons with a bit of risk (depending on what their was to proc it on), too.  Probably had the best mobility of classes that weren't a bind self class or bard.  I used to proc the hammer, and take the raft into TD and swim (or later, levitate) to the firepot room, and had it figured out which places it was a better idea to go there directly or use this method.  The fears of Faydedar were vastly overestimated, by the way. 

    So much of what made a SHD good was gear-based though.  Circlet of Shadows, "Overthere Hammer" (but at least it was just a rep grind and quest), the thing that proced an eye to lifetap (which I never got), the Lodizal self-haste quest thing, the thing from The Deep that let you self-shrink, and probably more that I'm forgetting.  How "good" you were in a lot of ways depended equally on what gear you obtained as your ability to understand and play your class.  I don't really mind it, but in this way the class was far more difficult than a rogue, for example, who could casual their way to an epic that was a top-3 weapon and had the rest of their utilty baked-in.

     

    Yes... the "worker's sledgemallet" was amazing as the SHD with the ability to FD and use pre-nurf CoS when needed.  Some of my favorite items that made me love the SHD were that mallet, the circlet of shadow (pre-nurf) and the revenant bauble that cast bobbing corpse with like .5 sec cast time.  The eye-patch of plunder, and journeyman boots were pretty much the only other items that I used throughout my entire SHD's life... I wasn't able to get my epic until coming back after like 8-10 years at which point I was able to solo it with a mercenary cleric (but I still got it damnit!)   :(

    To be more on point with the thread, my wishlist would include invisibility and FD (from ability or non-consumable item).  I would also love lifedrains (both spells and attacks).  I'm not a fan of DoT as a melee, and especially opposed to AoE DoT or requiring DoT for threat as a tank since DoT is terrible when grouped with hard CC... fast way to get the class blacklisted by groups that want enchanters and bards in their group.


    This post was edited by Darch at April 4, 2018 6:17 AM PDT
  • April 5, 2018 8:35 PM PDT

    2H tanking-  This is paramount, if they can't 2h tank just gonna roll a dwarf warrior

    Some form of lifesteal

    • 14 posts
    April 7, 2018 5:01 PM PDT

    I agree about 2h tanking.  The way I envision that is having the ability to use the 2h weapon as a sheild.  It would be nice if it was a skill that gained power as we progressed.  At first we simply gain proficiency in the 2h weapon skill.  At some point the 2h weapon skill gives us addition AC / proficiency with specific weapon type then eventually gaining the ablity to bash with the weapon as if we were weilding a shield.

    One of the things I loved about the Shadow Kinght is the ability to use all weapons proficiently and being able to switch them in and out as needed for a given situation.  I think the same should be true of the Dire Lord.    


    This post was edited by aMindAmok at April 7, 2018 5:03 PM PDT
    • 23 posts
    April 10, 2018 12:57 PM PDT

    Faelor said:

    1. Lifetaps: ...

    2. Two-handed defense (tanking): ...

    3. Damage Over Time (DoTs): ...

    4. Utility Spells Embracing Lore: ...

    5. Feign Death: ...

     

    I really agree with this list. However I would re-order this and add one thing.

    1. Lifetaps

    2. FEAR!

    3. Utility

    4. 2 Handed tanking

    5. Feign Death

    6. Dots

    For the fear element there is a caveat. It must be useful, and not just thematically cool. Making mobs run about like headless chickens on meth is not only useless, it is determental. The way fear works in most MMOs is garbage. It should make them turn away from the caster and cower like a little (insert female dog colloqualism here). Make it a CC/Debuff that we want to push because it adds to the strength of bringing that class.

    In fact I can imagine this being a major thematic element of the class. You could have a short/no cooldown short duration (say something like 6 seconds) single target fear you use a staple while tanking. You could have a semi-long CD (30 - 60 seconds) PBAOE one for stopping trains and getting control of a situation. You could one that is low CD, long lasting, but can break on damage, much like root in EQ.


    This post was edited by Rengrave at April 10, 2018 12:58 PM PDT
    • 1816 posts
    April 10, 2018 2:21 PM PDT

    One word : Bloodletter.

     

    The explained concept was totally sold to me, slashing weapons, blood control, no shield. Well that's just an interesting declinaison of the usual Dark Knight into something less usual, and less antisocial.

    Lifetaps are an evidence from this PoV, dots too (bleeds !), but no ETA on fear or FD. I'm not sure a bloodletter concept would favor FDing, to my great disappointment, but more utility trought fear and intimidation.

    • 102 posts
    April 10, 2018 2:59 PM PDT

    The DK in VG was really well done, and we didn't get FD. One of the balancing factors of being a tank is not having the ability to escape certain death. 

    A watered down pet also doesn't strike me as something very beneficial to an SK.

    SKs defining skills should be:

    1. Dreadful Countenance or fear-based skill that debuffs the mob(s) 

    2. A form of Harm Touch, preferably tied to building up Dreadful Countenance

    3. Lifetaps, obviously

    4. 2H tanking...weapon choice is mostly my preference

    5. Utility skills based around traditional Necro skills...snare, fear, invis, etc.

    • 6 posts
    April 13, 2018 5:43 PM PDT

    nscheffel said:

    A watered down pet also doesn't strike me as something very beneficial to an SK.

     

    I agree, a meager pet such as the one in EQ1 found it's niche uses but was an overall joke. However, I could see a place for a short-duration pet (doesn't have to be a skeleton. Bat?) that allows for greater letting of blood, which could tie into other skills that feed into that kinda thing. Hehe.

     

    Two handed tanking FTW!

    • 6 posts
    April 13, 2018 5:43 PM PDT

    nscheffel said:

    A watered down pet also doesn't strike me as something very beneficial to an SK.

    I agree, a meager pet such as the one in EQ1 found it's niche uses but was an overall joke. However, I could see a place for a short-duration pet (doesn't have to be a skeleton. Bat? Wraith?) that allows for greater letting of blood, which could tie into other skills that feed into that kinda thing. Hehe.

    Two handed tanking FTW!


    This post was edited by fearocity at April 13, 2018 5:46 PM PDT
    • 16 posts
    May 7, 2018 10:50 AM PDT

    if the DL is some kind of mix of SK from EQ and EQ2, I'll be happy.

    • 70 posts
    May 19, 2018 12:24 PM PDT

    1. Etheral Auras: Defensive Aura, Offensive Aura, Utility Aura. Aura Swap in Combat (aka Stance Dancing). 

    1.a. Defensive Aura - Increases Health Pool, Mitigation, Resistances, Incoming Heal Effectiveness, Threat

    1.b. Offensive Aura - Increases Edge Weapon Damage, Magic Damage, Reduces Threat

    1.c. Utility Aura - Movement Speed Increase, AoE Debuff, AoE Buff, Lifetaps transfer from offensive target to defensive target, party members within aura radius gain increase incoming heal effectiveness.

     

    2. Life Tap DD, DoT, & AoE - Damage Enemy Return Life to Player Character. A few minor DD LT's on medium cooldown, a decent DoT LT no cooldown, A major life-saving LT on a long cooldown, and a decent AoE LT. (Defensive Auara - less damage greater health return, Offensive Aura - greater damage less health return, Utility Aura life is transferred to the defensive target, exception AoE Life Tap is distributed to party members within Aura distance.

     

    3. Stat Tap - Debuff Enemy, stats are transferred to Buff Player Character.  (Defensive Aura - Defensive Stats transferred, Offensive Aura - Offensive Stats transferred - Utility both offensive and defensive stats transferred to party members within the Auras radius not as strong as single target.   

     

    4. Shadow Step - Teleport to Target

     

    5. Shadow Walk - Temporary Invisibility based on mana pool/distance covered.  (Total Loss of Agro, Total Loss of Threat) (Note: I found this type of ability more useful than FD)

     

    6. Damage Shield - Reflects Damage back on to the attacker. D Aura Life Tap, O Aura Dmg Tap

     

    7. Self-resurrect - Health pool upon self-resurrection dependant on bloodletting at time of death (the longer you fought in an encounter the greater your health return upon resurrection). Reuse dependant on time and bloodletting. 


    This post was edited by xaices at May 19, 2018 12:30 PM PDT
    • 30 posts
    May 20, 2018 5:27 PM PDT

    I think this would be some fun abilities.

    1 some kind of Auras. Your a lord that means you must have presence. You are a Dire Lord. This means a fear auras would be nice. That would make them freeze in place or something like that. (I do not like stance dancing so no stance dancing!)

    2 I want to see some Two handed tanking or dps

    3 Some kind of Life Tap that has something to do with how bad the target is bleeding or how bad you are bleeding could even have something to do with the Auras.

    4 Nothing to do with Necromancers. The Necromancer plays with the dead! A Dire Lord plays with the living!

    5 Damage Over Time (DoTs) and lots of them.

    6 Siphoning HP from their foes.

    • 415 posts
    May 20, 2018 11:43 PM PDT
    I really like a self-resurrect idea - could be very dark and bloody. Like maybe a certain number of bloody slashes OVER the DL's corpse could be a prereq to him activating a self-ressurect.
    • 918 posts
    June 6, 2018 9:20 AM PDT

    I'd really like to see the DoTs reigned in as a melee, especially in a game with limited skill slots that is going to be heavily reliant on CC and teamwork (moreso than I fear some people realize).  I'd prefer a 2h tanking class (which is what the DL will be) to be able to have snap agro from big hits and not be reliant on something to take 4-6 seconds to start being effective.  Perhaps a Threat/debuff Over Time mechanic like dreadful countenance but I foresee having to rely on DoT being a crippling factor in a group/raid (unless they are instant/extremely fast cast and have a way to expend their potential damage immediately by triggering them again or something).  DoT is the bane of CC in a game that will be heavily reliant upon people not breaking CC.  I would kick people from a group if they repeatedly broke my CC while making further CC attempts impossible and then likely be reluctant to group with that class unless I knew the player was very competent.

    If you can only have 8 skills on your bar:
    I think a couple of melee skill, maybe an aura or two, a couple of life drains, maybe some kind of utility and some threat generation.