Again, looked for a pvp forum and there doesnt seem to be one so i will post here. This post will be kind of long because im going to describe some problems with pvp i have encoutnered in games like this and a possible solution to some of them. My idea is in no way perfect or complete and is merely a starting point that maybe we can build on or discard. I'm going to describe a few issues encountered in EQ. Seeing as this game is probably closest to EQ in terms of most things and will probably deviate from the current standard and do something similar to EQ (maybe idk im guessing) im going to describe the issues there. My experience with PvP was on Rallos Zek where it was essentially a free for all. Good could attack good and bad could attack bad.
Corpse Camping. A few of us have experienced this and there really isnt anything more frustrating than this. It basically shuts down all game play until someone logs out and if you pissed off the wrong people (like i did in one case) your corpse will rot (dont know if thats a mechanic in this game) because of a concentrated effort to make that happen.
Faction exploiting. I am going to confess i did some of this. Essentially you raise your faction with a city and exploit guards to your advantage. I would cast thorns on people, attack them, let the thorns damage me, guards would attack them, and i would try to get the last hit.
Owning a zone. Now im going to combine the previous paragraph with this because I have a perfect example. In Highkeep on Rallos Zek there was an ogre sk who raised her faction to max level with the guards. She had a habit of training people to bring them to the guards and from there would attack her. You had the option of fighting back and risk losing xp or simply just laying over and dying to her. In other zones once a particular person zoned in you knew your leveling was done for the night. They would just destroy every group in the zone one by one.
I know the devs have talked about reputaiton a lot in this game and how they would like the community to solve problems organically. I do recognize the risks we take when we choose to play on a PvP server, but should we be basically forced to log off because of one person? I don't think so. PvP in games brings a different type of player and turns a server into Ayn Rands *graphic* dream. If you get killed its entirely on you. If someone uses and exploit to get that kill they still killed you and that's that. The fear of being exploited by other people reduces the amount that other people will help you. So in the example of a player basically owning a zone, the chances of those groups banding together to take on this player are exceptionally small. Powerful people hang with powerful people, so if you have a guild chances are the guy owning the zone does do and is probably more than capable of taking on yours (again my experience). There have literally been case studies on PvP interactions in MMORPGS. Players on PvP servers are definitely more callous towards their fellow players. Remember the Sleeper fiasco? I was on rallos at the time. It was a damned nightmare. WoW had their virus thing. Eve has its Randian trade monopolies and pvp. PvP should be fun and add to the game not take away from it.
So.... how do we fix this problem. Well... My idea is faction hits. In EQ1 if you killed a halfing in a halfling city you took a faction hit. My idea is something similar to this except you take the faction hit no matter where you are and not just with the home city. When you go to a new zone and you start killing NPC's you dont know what faction hits exactly you will recieve (or what faction hits you will gain) unless you do some homework. If you learn the story of the zone and the interactions of the NPCs you also begin to learn what kills will effect what factions. This is what i propose it would be like with players. Now, before you say you wont kill anyone becaue of this, imagine stalking someone. Watching them for a while, seeing what npcs they interact with, what npc's they kill, what npcs they have good and bad faction with. At this point exploiting faction becomes a skill. Once you determine who their friends and enemies are you know if you are willing to take that faction hit. The faction hits woulld be with those factions the player of course has decently high faction with themselves. It wouldnt just be the home cities because of course this would force the light v dark fighting which gets a little boring after a while. It would in the lower levels primarily be light v dark but as the characters progress the factions would become more complex.
So why? For one, it adds depth to PvP. It reinforces that PvP is at heart, an anti social thing. You would have to balance this with high reward. I am not averse to the 1 item loot rule. It will make the player question if it is worth killing this particular person. It doesnt make PvP such that it wont happen but it does make a person invest in the choice to attack a person rather than "oh look, newbs"
I think the reason there's no PvP forum is Pantheon is essentially a PvE game.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs
Pantheon is primarily a PvE (player vs. environment) game. In fact, when we say ‘environment’, we don’t just mean NPCs, but also contending with climates and atmospheres, the very world itself. That said, we understand that a portion of our target audience also enjoys player vs. player. Our experience is that separate PvE and PvP shards is the answer, however it is too early to predict how many PvP shards we would launch with. That being said, we will definitely launch with at least one player vs. player shard. It is also worth mentioning that when we do eventually focus on PvP we will do so such that tweaks and changes to classes and races in order to make PvP more fun will not affect the balance of Pantheon’s PvE experience. As the game grows there could be additional variations of PvP shards and more attention paid to the unique gameplay mechanics associated with PvP.
The issue with balance and PvP vs PvE is not one that is that difficult to solve but it does require planning: you just use different formulas and data - you don't cross your streams. That way, if we need to make Paladins in PvE more powerful, we can do that without disrupting PvP balance. And vice versa.
I just did a forum search for "PvP" and got nothing even though there is this thread: -
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6005/pvp-players-ideas-for-meaningful-pvp
On the first page and many others... I guess the search doesn't like 3 letter words? Whatever...
It is acknowledged that the search function of these Forums is ...errr .... a trifle *sucky*
However, using my Mk 1.0 eyeball, I managed to locate:
... and that merely covers the last 6 months!
Hopefully there is something in there to keep you going! Perhaps somebody even answered your point already :)
PS there are lots and lots of interesting threads... ranging from the 'obscure' to the truly 'bizarre' if you look....
Evoras, thinks much of this is well worth reading!
PPS: Worth noting
Kilsin said:Fair warning, we have had several of these threads and most end up getting locked due to people not being able to help themselves and turning these into forum PvP threads, which will not be tolerated, so please, as the OP, do your best to keep this thread on topic and away from personal attacks, or it will have to be closed like the rest. :)
Disclaimer:We will have separate PvE and PvP servers, changes to either server will not affect the other unless it is a game wide patch for bugs, content etc. so there is no need to worry or feel threatened by each other's playstyles.
Squall said:HOw did you find these i went through 40 pages in general disuccsion and only saw the most recent other post about PVP.
The search function: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/search?query=&type=forum_topic&submit=
Granted, as Evo said, the search function currently leaves a lot to be desired. I have a love/hate relationship with it. Fortunately we will be getting a much more powerful one when the new forums arrive. Anyway, in this case, just typing "PvP" in the search bar will yield no results (as Disposalist discovered) because yes, it does not accept any query less than 4 letters. So you have to search for other similar keywords that have 4 more or letters. Other than that, Evo has been on these forums for a long time and familiarity with past discussions makes it a lot easier to find them. That's where forum addicts like he and I come in :)
