Yall,
What are thoughts on weapon swapping in and out of combat, but I guess more specifically in combat? Say if you are a Ranger, I like the concept of going from a dual sword wield to a longbow with somewhat of a cooldown, including the weapons abilites, with ease. I feel that it would give combat a little game fluidity and potentially help a variety of sticky situations. I also feel that in keeping with the sort of 'traditional mmo' feel of the game that it still would feel somewhat realistic to whip a bow out and have an ability that jumpshoots you back so you can start kiting or something of that sort. . Maybe when you jumpshot backwards then more ranged abilites open up for the bow? Just throwing ideas out there. . :)
Maybe when you switch to a bow you can only do it once during that fight and you drop your swords on the ground only to have to return back to retreive them after the fight? haha. . sorry, I am excited!
For the record I am not keen on the idea of armor swapping in combat tho, that would just seem to unrealistic.
Sorry if this has been addressed, I tried looking through search with various words mashed but didnt come across much!
Cheers!
Hello and welcome to the forums! You might be interested in this thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3564/quick-switch-for-gear/view/page/1
Here is Brad's response on the idea:
Aradune said:Zeem said:This is a silly debate.
Pick your gear before the fight.
This argurment is about the mundain tasks of the player on having gear sets. In combat no gear switches should be allowed period.
I know where you're coming from, as well as the other side of the argument, but I'm wondering if we have to choose soley one or the other?
You don't want complete outfit swapping because 1. it doesn't make sense -- you couldn't do that and remain in combat and 2. because we believe that perparation for a battle is almost as important as the execution of the actual plan during battle.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Obviously then if you know yourself and your allies, what makes you weak and what makes you strong, then you can prepare accordingly and this would include the gear you are wearing when the enemy is engaged. Likewise if you know the strengths, weaknesses, and strategy of the enemy you can even better plan tactically.
And of course I've said many times that we want who you are, what you have, where you are, who your allies are, and what you're going up against to all matter in Pantheon, especially or at least for special/boss mobs. This extra depth isn't simply being pursued because it's more realistic or because I sleep with The Art of War under my pillow. No, it's because generally depth means more to learn, allows for more variables to exist (and therefore less prediction), and a variety of experiences in general (to battle Groundhog Day, a battle MMOs/MUDs have been in from day one).
But I'm also on record as a big advocate of the rule that what's right, or workable, or even fun more often lies not on either side or extreme but rather in the center.
Conclusion (for me anyway, at this time): A subset of gear (and other configurable options) should be the exception to this rule and swappable even in battle. Could your friend distract the ghast long enough for me to switch swords, or to retreat and switch from a melee weapon to a ranged one? I think so, yes. Too far beyond that, however, and we'd either simply not allow it, or perhaps make a way for you to have a chance to disengage.... While difficult, couldn't a skilled warrior taunt a mob so effectively that they, at least temporarily, forget about you? How about if the mob you are fighting isn't that intelligent anyway... it's disposition and behavior could reflect that it's not smart but still quite dangerous, using effective tactics but tactics dissimilar from those you'd see a more intelligent entity employ.
We'd have to be careful... it would be very easy to get into a situation where either 1. it's almost always beneficial for me to micromanage my equipment and change things and therefore we need a warrior to free me up or 2. it's so difficult to taunt a mob to that degree that I very rarely have the opportunity to make serious changes, so I just don't.
Lastly I also really like the idea of 'waves' for some of the more challenging battles... it wasn't too long ago that RL combat involved bringing in different units at different times... one general would perhaps use his archers to soften up the enemy, then send in the calvary to disorient and disrupt them, finally sending in the swordsmen to kill the enemy and win. Something similar could also be implemented during more difficult encounters, both by players and NPCs. I'm just riffing here, but perhaps the first wave against a particular boss mob is always hit be a massive fire AoE. Why? Justin or someone could come up with something really cool, but for now I'll just say he loves fire. But then once you've survived the firestorm (assuming you do), you learn that if you can keep him stunned the fire AoEs aren't cast and he goes crazy DPS, targeting perhaps the member of your group that appears least prepared to mitigate a ton of damage. So in Wave 2 (who until now were in another room, or at least both far away and not within range of the AoE) you have a tank and off-tank engage and hope they can endure the fast DPS.
Why did I riff a little? Couple of reasons. 1. to encourage you guys to keep up doing the same. 2. I love coming up with examples as to why situational gear creates a deeper, more rewarding combat experience and makes planning ahead that much more important and 3. because I think we could achieve without undue difficulty rules that prevent both people swapping outfits in the middle of a nasty encounter but to still allow them to swap a few things, and even more things if they could somehow disengage.
Definitely something to play with in alpha/beta.
...
Yep, good responses in that other thread.
Aradune said: ... Good points and I agree in general: if we change something in-game dynamically, then you guys need to be able to react dynamically (of course, the same is true for NPCs -- if they see you change something (say, weather) dynamically, they may react as well).
Weapon switch, sure - that's totally different to gear switching.
There's no reason a ranger shouldn't switch from bow to dual weilding swords as he dashes into melee.
You should perhaps only have a couple of alternates, though, and it shouldn't be instant and should maybe take stamina to complete like other 'abilities'.
I think that if you are disengaged from an enemy there should be no reason you can't swap items or sit down to swap spells/abilities, even if you have agro. I recall the days of running away from enemies and getting far enough ahead to sit down and mem new spells then turning around to fight them. That's how you managed in EQ with limited options for spells.
Now, doing so I think comes with consequences, like say all of your combat abilities get refreshed/recycled (whatever you call it) so that you can't just keep swapping and getting big attacks in.
bigdogchris said:I think that if you are disengaged from an enemy there should be no reason you can't swap items or sit down to swap spells/abilities, even if you have agro. I recall the days of running away from enemies and getting far enough ahead to sit down and mem new spells then turning around to fight them. That's how you managed in EQ with limited options for spells.
Now, doing so I think comes with consequences, like say all of your combat abilities get refreshed/recycled (whatever you call it) so that you can't just keep swapping and getting big attacks in.
Eq had a simple way against "swapping your big spells", every spell with a cooldown started the moment you memmed it instead of the moment you used it, so putting it in your bar had no effect unless you waited the appropiated time.
I'm all good for weapon swaps as long as it's not as bad as GW2's swap (IE : using all the skills from your primary weapon then switching to use all thoses and return to the primary), Switching should be a way to adapt to a different setup, not a wap to overpower with two settings in quick succession.
