Sympathetic abilities can add a great layer of depth to gameplay but what about going one step further and having some truely epic spells and abilities that take multiple users to execute ?
For instance:
A Fireball that has to be channeled by no less than 5 Wizards standing in a circle formation.
A Shield Wall created by 3 Warriors standing shoulder to shoulder.
A Giant Construct brought to life by 3 Summoners then controlled by a Enchanter.
3 Monks focus their chi on a Paladin and they deliver a massive ae knockdown attack with it.
A lot of interesting situations could be added to raids requiring tactics involving these massive abilities being lined up and executed properly.
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
I love the idea of coordinated abilities. I know other games have done similar things. I particularly liked the triggered abilities in LoTRO where a specific class (such as a burglar) was adept at setting up the ability, then everyone in the group contributed to create powerful combos.
I hope the devs give your suggestions some serious thought.
I don't know for some reason this idea doesn't resonate with me. To me these actions would become the required actions and sounds like a artifical combo to me. I don't much like having to follow a combo or chain things off of others to get a bigger effect while fighting. You become to worried about timing combos then experiencing the fight and the social aspect of the group.
Zeem said:I don't know for some reason this idea doesn't resonate with me. To me these actions would become the required actions and sounds like a artifical combo to me. I don't much like having to follow a combo or chain things off of others to get a bigger effect while fighting. You become to worried about timing combos then experiencing the fight and the social aspect of the group.
Yes I agree. Things like the suggested in the OP are best reserved for out of combat actions/displays, things like having a handful of healers channel a spell together for a minute or so to cast mass ressurection after a raid wipe or having a grouping of wizards weave a portal into a different plane of existence or even for crafting you could require a group of smiths (smith + strikers) working in tandem on crafting a single powerful item. Things like that.
I like the idea of concentrated efforts. But I prefer them to be made up dynamically by the players. I could see how it would be interesting to have dps casters have some sort of additional bonus for combining efforts... As long as what Iksar says about it being required to "win" not being a thing.
Angrykiz said:Sympathetic abilities can add a great layer of depth to gameplay but what about going one step further and having some truely epic spells and abilities that take multiple users to execute ?
For instance:
A Fireball that has to be channeled by no less than 5 Wizards standing in a circle formation.
A Shield Wall created by 3 Warriors standing shoulder to shoulder.
A Giant Construct brought to life by 3 Summoners then controlled by a Enchanter.
3 Monks focus their chi on a Paladin and they deliver a massive ae knockdown attack with it.
A lot of interesting situations could be added to raids requiring tactics involving these massive abilities being lined up and executed properly.
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
Another cool idea.
Also, hard to balance, could easily become a cookie cutter necessity if not done right.
I more enjoy your idea of the shield wall where it's an actual physical interaction with the world. This requires a lot of design, however.
I like the idea, but I agree with Krixus on the balancing point. If these were implemented for Pantheon to avoid having to worry about balancing, I see these more as an opening action than something that occurs real-time. Like - 3 warriors needing to shield bash the door to bust it down versus a lockpick. Basically, I agree with what Iksar stated.
I enjoy this idea as an added bonus like FFXI and EQ2 had. However, with all great ideas come social norms. FFXI's combo system ended up become maditory as it was a huge bonus to group fighting, while EQ2's become useless as it did almost nothing beyond level 10 or so compared to your normal dps and buffs.
If they found a way to make it optional but not interfere too bad but still give a reason to do it then I believe this would be an entertaining system.
One example that comes to mind would be instead of a "countdown bar" for spells, you have a "completion bar" and allow other casters with the same spell of the same or higher tier to assist and channelling the spell at any time during the cast to both speed up the spell and offer a boost in power. You could also have it share mana costs over all channelling members based on the % completion they added. This would allow those OOM wizards to all get together for a last ditch effort to throw one last big nuke before the raid wipes. or the OOM clerics to bundle up and cast one last complete heal on the ... goblin king!? who targetted the goblin king!?
this example really only works with spells, as I would imaging attacks do not much completion time associated with them, more of a cooldown.
Attack combos would be another beast entirely as they would require pre-planned combos to be programmed in and checked for every time skills are used. You could do added potency effects such as stunning a stunned opponent would knock them unconscious for a minute.
I actually did really like the LOTRO way of doing things - it gave groups that were really coordinated a bit of a boost.
For those that don't know it, one of the group (I believe only a rogue class? It was some time ago) could instigate a special group ability and each party member would have a limited time to chose a colour to contribute. Depending on the colour combos and order, a special ability would trigger.
Most of the time people just gave it little thought and got a little extra damage, but occasionally people would make the effort to pick what was more appropriate: HoT or direct heal if you were lacking in that area or protection if your tank was a little squishy or power if mana management was suffering, etc.
For me, it didn't detract from the core abilities being used, it simply gave a boost if you could be bothered to use it properly. People going up against normal monsters for their level didn't bother much, but a group could move through an area faster if they did it well or a group could even challenge monsters that would ordinarily be a little too tough if they really coordinated the group abilities well *and* kept on top of their normal abilities.
As long as it wasn't too significant or intrusive it would add a nice extra level of tactics for those that can handle their normal abilities and have mental capacity left over to coordinate a timed sequence type thing.
Ever try to get 20 people to complete a strat with easy stuff like stand here when there isn't a red circle and move when it shows up? Could you imagine trying to get them to coordinate complex subroutines while having to get out of the circle and deal with the smart AI that VR is suggesting... I love the idea and think it would be great for out of combat stuff like interacting with town defence objects or siege quests. Perhaps even epic quests could require this level of group effort. Maybe it takes an entire group of wizards to summon an ingredient needed in their quest.
I don't know. Seems to me that if you're going to put a system like this into a game that it needs to be relevant and powerful enough to make or break the outcome of an encounter.
If the buffs or damage or so insignificant, nobody will bother and the dev time creating it was wasted.
Much better to err on the side of making it something that any top rank player is going to be proficient at. Elite groups or raiding parties that try to do "more with less" will want to leverage a system like this as part of the min/max effort to get the most you can from every pixel or electron in the game.
Just like we expect top-level players to bring their top level gear, we should expect them to bring their A-game with respect to strategy.
If someone wants to play more casually and zerg an encounter with numbers as opposed to skill, that option is open, but perhaps not for every end-game encounter.
Iksar said:Zeem said:I don't know for some reason this idea doesn't resonate with me. To me these actions would become the required actions and sounds like a artifical combo to me. I don't much like having to follow a combo or chain things off of others to get a bigger effect while fighting. You become to worried about timing combos then experiencing the fight and the social aspect of the group.
Yes I agree. Things like the suggested in the OP are best reserved for out of combat actions/displays, things like having a handful of healers channel a spell together for a minute or so to cast mass ressurection after a raid wipe or having a grouping of wizards weave a portal into a different plane of existence or even for crafting you could require a group of smiths (smith + strikers) working in tandem on crafting a single powerful item. Things like that.
CanadinaXegony said:So only cast fireball if in a circle of other wizards? How many times does it happen that .that many (whatever number it is) wizards all join together..not often. I would hate to think that my abilities are only good if joined at the hip with others of the same class?
No. I think it would be more like adding a modifier to the fireball. 1 wizard does 1(50) = 50. Two wizards do 2.1(50) = 105. 3 wizards do 3.15(50) = 157.5... or whatever the modifier rate increase would be.