MauvaisOeil said:Of course it's not a poor example. You proved again in your own answer that the class race matrix is not representative of the popularity, that rogues were overplayed when over the top (Before normalization, with resilience and the removal of the "stunlock combo" of 10s withouth DR that sufficed to kill players in classic).
Now they are underplayed because they have "nothing" usefull beside beeing a DPS class, no utility, no displacement, and since the world is easy even ungeared beeing stealthy adds nothing to the balance. Despite beeing still accessible to a large array of classes, they are now underplayed since Wotlk at least.
You can try to control the flux of players by avaliability (even if for most, class > race), but in the end it's what you give to classes that will make them over or underplayed. Just like druids in EQ were.
The class/race matrix is exactly what determines the player's choice... how can it not?! It literally restricts you from being something like a gnome warrior. WoW was the exception to the class/race matrix because they broke the mold and created the FotM, which is what people like me fear will happen with PRotF for these exact reasons! The EQ druid wouldn't hvae been overplayed if elves/halfelves (the most popularly played EQ races, (Necro, Mage and Bard being the most popular classes)) couldn't play them (the human was second in popularity due to the Mage and monk classes before kunark). Just like tanks will likely be fairly balanced in population in PRotF due to the restriction of races allowed to be Paladin, the availability of warriors to be all races and the popularity of the "evil" tank not being the "tank" that most people will desire for their groups first at end game, but should be viable in a pinch (when a warrior or paladin aren't available or for specific content (i.e. off-tank)). Class/race is mostly about class demographics and balancing of the group game, which is obviously very important in a group-centric game (there is never a shortage of DPS classes in an MMO).
I think the amount of clout you place on race is likely due to your own preferences and would wager the majority of players pick a class first then whichever race they like most that can be said class. Race is such a distant gameplay influencer next to class it would honestly be absurd to me to pick a class based on race, possibly avoiding picking a class one really resonates with just to be a specific race instead.
And the constant harping on DL somehow not being good/main tanks or otherwise less desirable is ridiculous and needs to stop.
Darch said:The class/race matrix is exactly what determines the player's choice... how can it not?! It literally restricts you from being something like a gnome warrior. WoW was the exception to the class/race matrix because they broke the mold and created the FotM, which is what people like me fear will happen with PRotF for these exact reasons! The EQ druid wouldn't hvae been overplayed if elves/halfelves (the most popularly played EQ races, (Necro, Mage and Bard being the most popular classes)) couldn't play them (the human was second in popularity due to the Mage and monk classes before kunark). Just like tanks will likely be fairly balanced in population in PRotF due to the restriction of races allowed to be Paladin, the availability of warriors to be all races and the popularity of the "evil" tank not being the "tank" that most people will desire for their groups first at end game, but should be viable in a pinch (when a warrior or paladin aren't available or for specific content (i.e. off-tank)). Class/race is mostly about class demographics and balancing of the group game, which is obviously very important in a group-centric game (there is never a shortage of DPS classes in an MMO).
You miss my point. Never have I stated the matrix isn't making you choose something included in it, as you have little choice.
But people (except roleplayers or roleplayers friendly maybe ?) focus on a class, before choosing a race. Do you start an MMO telling you "Ill be an elf and then I'll choose something in it ?" or "I'll be a warrior (or anything else) and then I'll choose which race I pick ?".
If the paladin gets to be :
-A solid tank with a simple but effective rotation
or
-A better soloer than most classes
or
-Able to fulfill challenges by himself or because of his presence
Then even with two races, it will be the most popular class. Just like rogues were dominant in classic wow before beeing nerfed, how warriors are dominant on wow private servers because now everyone does know they are TOP dps once correctly geared (which is longer than most would think), how druids became dominant in EQ once kitting was "invented".
And guess what ? Monks in EQ are avaliable to two races and on P99 monk twinks are predominant in most areas because now everyone knows they are good soloers, scale with excellence, can reset threat on bad pulls and heal themselves with a cooldown. Two races, one class, but solid abilities that made them overflowing. It was a very popular class even in EQ's 4th or 6th first years because once it was spoiled, everyone made a monk twink reroll.
The matrix decide what you can do, but what the class is able to fulfill will decide how many people will pick the class in the end, and flavour of the month existed even in EQ, it was simply "slowly patched" and was more or like "flavour of the last discovery in a proto-mmo".
I'm pretty sure if monks in Pantheon are able to tank for exp groups and deal DPS at the same, they will be flourishing everywhere (and it will be very bad for the game). I hope it won't happen for paladin either, or any other class.