I would personally love to see Elf Paladins too, but am fine playing a Dwarf Paladin if things stay as they are. I do have a question, though, for anyone who may know: Lore-wise, why can't Elves be Paladins and Clerics? They do have at least a couple deities from what I understand, and they have a long history of war with the Revenant. I would think that would make them perfect candidates for the holy arts. Admittedly, I don't know the lore super well, but am I missing something?
Gyldervane said:I would personally love to see Elf Paladins too, but am fine playing a Dwarf Paladin if things stay as they are. I do have a question, though, for anyone who may know: Lore-wise, why can't Elves be Paladins and Clerics? They do have at least a couple deities from what I understand, and they have a long history of war with the Revenant. I would think that would make them perfect candidates for the holy arts. Admittedly, I don't know the lore super well, but am I missing something?
I think, with no certitude, that the elves of Pantheon are more inspired from the Lord of the ring elf type ie : The more "Wood elves" beeing like the Rivendell elves, and the more "high elves" beeing like the Lorien elves.
However, both share strong roots to the nature and the forest surrounding them, their difference beeing small firsthand, more visible in details and temper.
In this design, it makes elves different from the High Elves of Everquest that were mostly paragons of virtues and goodness.
It may sound silly, but if I could play an exception (like Drizzt) I would like to try a dark myr paladin. I understand there are lore reason why their clerics aren't normally called to be paladins (I guess it's hard to be righteous when you are consumed by bitterness and darkness). I can see how race/class restrictions are necessary in the lore because having a racial background and identity are important. That being said it might be cool if other races could eventually "earn" the option to play new class combinations through the progeny system or something. It could allow for some more unique character history without having thousands of elven paladins or whatever running around. Then again I guess it might be taking things away from each racial culture if you started mixing them up like that.
Youmu said:I don't really see why a Paladin couldn't be something other than Lawful Good, anti-paladins existed in D&D which were Paladins but evil. Do we know the official reasoning why the Myr can be Clerics and not Paladins?
Yep.
And come on, don't limit us players to the dreaded Dwarf/Human WoW-cliche again. That's a huge slap in the face.
Gyldervane said:I would personally love to see Elf Paladins too, but am fine playing a Dwarf Paladin if things stay as they are. I do have a question, though, for anyone who may know: Lore-wise, why can't Elves be Paladins and Clerics? They do have at least a couple deities from what I understand, and they have a long history of war with the Revenant. I would think that would make them perfect candidates for the holy arts. Admittedly, I don't know the lore super well, but am I missing something?
I agree - the Elf lore suggests they would have been prime candidates for Paladins. That said, I do understand why they may not be Clerics...and since Paladins are ex Clerics, then by default I see why the Paladin is not an option. It is a shame though, I think the lore really does fit a Paladin class. ANd I do not think the lore really excludes Clerics as such, so I am Pro Cleric and Paladin being added to Elves!
For me, EQ1 was either play a midget (no thanks) or play a High elf who had horrible strength and Stamina.
To me, there were only 2 options because I hated playing humans or half elves. Humans couldnt see at night, and half elf armor looked weird.
I remember picking a High Elf and that decision haunting me for a very long time. (I was very young in my gaming experience, give me a break) The race that I chose wasn't even a good tank race. The base stats were terrible for tanking. The only option that made sense was to play a dwarf. I refused to do that and paid for it until many years later when gear stats made up for it.
My opinion is that the lore DOES matter a LOT. I'm not one to swear by storylines, hell I even skip most of the cut scenes in games. The fact that the gods were actually relevent in EQ1 was a very awesome feat that no other MMO has done right since EQ1, in my opinion. I loved the faction systems and the Good/Evil system that they had in place. It made perfect sense and is very plausible. Every other MMO I've played since is very caught up on letting players do whatever the hell they want. I think the Development Team should stick to their guns and do what they think is best for the overall feel and immersion of the game. And if only 2 races seem to be "Paladin Worthy" than I'm fine with that. Just please don't make one of them have crippling stats that don't make sense for a Tank. Make that elf race branch of Paladins be the only ones to hit the gym or something... Tank -> tank stats please. Don't force someone to play a plate wearing tank with 30% less strength to carry the armor and 40% less stamina than their rival race equivalents.
I apologize for comparing this game to EQ1, I understand that it isnt the same game. On the flip side, EQ1 did a LOT of things right, and is my favorite game of all time to date.
zhyn said:I am really disapointed in only 2 races to choose from. I think its a bad idea to only have 2 races to choose from for any class, I was really hoping to play as an elf paladin, or archai paladin, change the lore to allow or risk having a low population of paladins!
No problems there, we don't have most of the lore which means they can change it however they likeXD
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But really I doubt reducing the number of available races reduces pallies too much, yea you have the people who are the same race/class combo in every game, but there's plenty of others who I'll bet will be more than happy to be pallies, so long as they are the coolest pallies available, from whatever options there are=).
Just chiming in to agree that I feel certain classes - and paladin in particular - are way overly limited. As it is, I probably will never play one because I simply have no desire to play something as "standard" as a human or dwarf, when there are so many other more unique options for races available. This is unfortunate, as I'd really enjoy paladin as a class.
At the very least, it makes no sense that Dark Myr can be clerics but not paladins.
Naunet said:Just chiming in to agree that I feel certain classes - and paladin in particular - are way overly limited. As it is, I probably will never play one because I simply have no desire to play something as "standard" as a human or dwarf, when there are so many other more unique options for races available. This is unfortunate, as I'd really enjoy paladin as a class.
At the very least, it makes no sense that Dark Myr can be clerics but not paladins.
I don't think they are Good aligned, thus if Paladin's power is tied to good deities, it's not possible at all.
Frankly, if there is a race to me that should probably be opened to paladins, it's more over the Archai. They seem battleborne of some sort and even if they might not be entirely good in alignment (Humans aren't either probably), I can suppose they have some good deities in their pantheon that might allow them to bypass the absence of clerics.
I will however agree that it might be unfitting with pantheon's design of the paladin : Ancien clerics of good alignment changed to reckoning knights.
MauvaisOeil said:I don't think they are Good aligned, thus if Paladin's power is tied to good deities, it's not possible at all.
Good is relative, but the Myr story is far more tragic than it is evil. Those that killed Syronai did so in a passioned horror out of perceived violation, and they don't appear to be part of the main Dark Myr society. At least, the lore page only says, "The Nythirian Red disappeared into the sea, searching for the means to return to true Myr form."
That they have clerics proves they can access the power of their gods (though I do wonder which one/ones, as Syronai is seemingly dead), and their lore page describes their skill in battle.
Naunet said:MauvaisOeil said:I don't think they are Good aligned, thus if Paladin's power is tied to good deities, it's not possible at all.Good is relative, but the Myr story is far more tragic than it is evil. Those that killed Syronai did so in a passioned horror out of perceived violation, and they don't appear to be part of the main Dark Myr society. At least, the lore page only says, "The Nythirian Red disappeared into the sea, searching for the means to return to true Myr form."
That they have clerics proves they can access the power of their gods (though I do wonder which one/ones, as Syronai is seemingly dead), and their lore page describes their skill in battle.
I agree, but only because what we know of the Dark Myr's lore (who have been probably retaken from the Myrs of a Previous iteration) is more proud, tragic than evil and schemed. But that's all we know. All we had is a glimpse into public text published, what, 3 years ago.
The same applied for ogres, at best they look like war champions more than an evil race. We only got the surface as a base and background, and clearly nothing concrete.
I have played a Pally in many different MMO's and am always fascinated on the amount of complaining people do about class balance with the tank. To me you have to know your role, in many of these games the Pally is not the main tank and is better utilized as a utility tank with some unique abilities.
I have every intention of rolling a Paladin when the game launches regardless of what races are given to me. When I find a spot in the game where I am tanking and I cannot mitigate a certain level of damage or hate hold against a specific class I will work the mechanics of the game and the class to make this happen. I watched the twitch stream last month and saw the Pally struggle quite a bit with hate and threat management. This is something that I am quite good at and will learn the strategies to develop this so I can main tank for our guild through most mobs.
The game hasn't launched yet and people are complaining about being unbalanced, this just boggles my mind...
Red
Redroostah said:I have played a Pally in many different MMO's and am always fascinated on the amount of complaining people do about class balance with the tank. To me you have to know your role, in many of these games the Pally is not the main tank and is better utilized as a utility tank with some unique abilities.
I have every intention of rolling a Paladin when the game launches regardless of what races are given to me. When I find a spot in the game where I am tanking and I cannot mitigate a certain level of damage or hate hold against a specific class I will work the mechanics of the game and the class to make this happen. I watched the twitch stream last month and saw the Pally struggle quite a bit with hate and threat management. This is something that I am quite good at and will learn the strategies to develop this so I can main tank for our guild through most mobs.
The game hasn't launched yet and people are complaining about being unbalanced, this just boggles my mind...
Red
Saicred in the stream was playing the Paladin and he was "struggling with hate and threat management" because the other tank in the group was a Dire Lord that has naturally higher threat generation (as intended). With that being cleared, I don't think the Paladin will have issues holding threat from players that are playing correctly; It won't be entirely the tank's responsibility to manage hate (if DPS classes are pulling threat, its likely their own fault).
Darch said:Redroostah said:I have played a Pally in many different MMO's and am always fascinated on the amount of complaining people do about class balance with the tank. To me you have to know your role, in many of these games the Pally is not the main tank and is better utilized as a utility tank with some unique abilities.
I have every intention of rolling a Paladin when the game launches regardless of what races are given to me. When I find a spot in the game where I am tanking and I cannot mitigate a certain level of damage or hate hold against a specific class I will work the mechanics of the game and the class to make this happen. I watched the twitch stream last month and saw the Pally struggle quite a bit with hate and threat management. This is something that I am quite good at and will learn the strategies to develop this so I can main tank for our guild through most mobs.
The game hasn't launched yet and people are complaining about being unbalanced, this just boggles my mind...
Red
Saicred in the stream was playing the Paladin and he was "struggling with hate and threat management" because the other tank in the group was a Dire Lord that has naturally higher threat generation (as intended). With that being cleared, I don't think the Paladin will have issues holding threat from players that are playing correctly; It won't be entirely the tank's responsibility to manage hate (if DPS classes are pulling threat, its likely their own fault).
I agree. I am looking forward to showing the populations that threat management with a Pally isn't only plausable it is fairly easy when you blend in the unique skillset Pally's bring to the field.
I have always had great luck with skill damage, heals, and taunts with keeping hate within a group. It's putting all your eggs in one basket like "taunt" or pure damage. We will never out DPS a Direlord, nor will we ever mitigate damage as well as a Warrior. But I can stand my ground with nearly anything if given an opportunity.
Pally's are amazing utility tanks in raids and always been a solid MT in groups.
Red
I for one am excited that so few races can be paladin, because all you really need is Dwarves anyway all other races don't really matter especially Elves blech. Stick to prancing through fields, hugging trees, and making friends with small woodland animals. There is no life where Paladins dwell only undeath, down in the deepest darkest parts of the world and thats where Dwarves feel most at home with a iron fist of holy justice!
If I had one concern its not that paladins don't have the skills they need to be a awesome addition to any group. Its that if all we have is 12 or less ability slots we won't be able to bring out the full potential of the class. After looking over all the skills we will need 5 for aggro, 3-4 for heals, and at least 2 for defensive cooldowns. So if we want to be a hybrid like we are meant to be that leaves us with 1 to 2 extra slots if we have a max 12 which doesn't leave much room for the all crowd control skills or battle res. Not to mention all the skills we don't even know about so I am hoping they decide to do at least 16 slots so we can full bring out the class!
