Forums » The Enchanter

For Panthoen where is the Lean?

    • 22 posts
    January 11, 2017 5:19 PM PST

    Would the devs be leaning more towards an EQ Enchanter or VG Enchanter or something entirely new?  Personnally speaking, in VG I kind of hated when the game limited the amount of Mez targets which you could have mezed at one time.  What is the feeling here, will their be a limit (total targets mez at one time) like in VG or will it be more like EQ which allowed you to really be a Crowd control boss!

    • 1970 posts
    January 11, 2017 5:23 PM PST

    I was wondring this the other day.  Good question.

    • 858 posts
    January 11, 2017 7:13 PM PST

    Was the Mez limit based on one mez spell or across all the options for mez / CC, in VG they had illusions to keep mobs busy did that also count towards the mez limit?  Sorry i am not familiar.

    I know Kilsin has mentioned before how much he liked some of the variety of CC options in VG for enchanter types and after looking into it I agree they a few different cool ways to keep a mob distracted / mez'd that was more that the standard daze/sleep state that EQ used, so i would imagine he is pushing for this kind of variety to be implimented.

    I wish i had more VG experience when it was populated, sounded awesome in the hay day.

    • 656 posts
    January 11, 2017 8:59 PM PST

    My favorite spell in all of EQ, all of MMORPG and all or gaming was AE Mezz.

     

     

    • 858 posts
    January 12, 2017 1:29 AM PST

    fazool said:

    My favorite spell in all of EQ, all of MMORPG and all or gaming was AE Mezz.

      

    As long as AoE mez comes with a fairly expensive mana cost and a cool down timer i am all for it otherwise it kinda takes the challenge away!

    • 404 posts
    January 12, 2017 3:35 AM PST

    Mezzing would no doubt take a lot of concentration for the chanter - maybe if the duration was reduced,  or increased chance of breaking mez depending on the # or targets you are controlling. Adds an element of risk.

    But I have to agree - that feeling of awesomeness when you landed a AE Mezz - so good!

    • 1714 posts
    January 12, 2017 6:48 AM PST

    AE mez was definitely fun, took some practice to figure out the area so you didn't catch yourself in it.

    • 500 posts
    January 12, 2017 8:56 AM PST

    I, personally, would like to see Mez limits. Then give CC support classes more options. I love the idea of making a image clone that keeps the mob taunted and busy for a time, but I also would like to see more need for other types of CC. With a Mez limit that would force you to use things like root. That would also help promote having other support classes in a group rather than Tank, Cleric, Enchanter, and three top DPS. I agree the Enchanter should be the best at CC support, but not all powerful.

    I would think that the mez limits should be different for the type of mez. Say AE mez has a large limit, say 6 or 8, but a short duration. This would be used as an "Oh ****" button to quickly grab control of a bad pull and give the enchanter and other CC time to single mez, mirror image, root park, etc all of the mobs. The single target mez would have a much longer duration than the AE mez. Something like mirror image I wouldn't mind not having a limit, but only if there is a chance that the mob could still agro other people. Say if someone nukes it it might drop agro from the image or over healing could cause it to swap to a healer. This would allow the spell to be used but doesn't make it a 100% lock down type CC. Its the same with root. Long duration, no limits, but it still can melee anyone within range and nuking it would cause knock back and break the root. Agro would be an issue with roots as well. Once they break they will most likely be on a healer. Making it useful, but not as strong as Mez or Mirror Image.

    I think the love needs to be spread around a bit. Enchanter should be the best choice for a CC class, but in a raid or a group were large pulls may be more frequent they shouldn't be the only CC the group will want to take along. They will want/need a different type of CC support to come as well, like a druid, ranger, shaman?, whatever classes have some CC ability.

     

    • 858 posts
    January 12, 2017 3:50 PM PST

    kelenin said:

    AE mez was definitely fun, took some practice to figure out the area so you didn't catch yourself in it.

    +1 I loved this challenge of AE Mez! I hope they include the self mez aspect of AE Mez if your in range, it needs to have downsides or else it is toooo easy control otherwise deadly situations

    • 115 posts
    January 21, 2017 10:32 PM PST

    I completely agree about AE mez!  It made a great 'Oh ****!' button, and the fact that you could catch yourself in it made it even better, IMO.  Even more than the long cooldown and high mana cost, the potential to catch yourself in it kept it from being too OP.

    • 16 posts
    May 3, 2017 5:07 PM PDT

    Jonstorm said:

    Would the devs be leaning more towards an EQ Enchanter or VG Enchanter or something entirely new?  Personnally speaking, in VG I kind of hated when the game limited the amount of Mez targets which you could have mezed at one time.  What is the feeling here, will their be a limit (total targets mez at one time) like in VG or will it be more like EQ which allowed you to really be a Crowd control boss!

     

    I remember mezzing and holding 9 mobs.  Please let me do that again.

    • 24 posts
    May 5, 2017 3:47 PM PDT

    In DOAC I used to run a Sorc with two groups. I would be able to focus on CC and juggle about two dozen mobs at a time when people were paying attention. It was so much fun. One of the most fun times Ive had in an MMO.

    • 258 posts
    May 11, 2017 8:17 AM PDT

    No hard limits on mezz targets, but put a soft limit on how many you can keep mezzed by adjusting mana cost, mezz time, etc.   As for AoE mezz, high mana cost, long cooldown, and have it serve only as a buffer to allow you more time to pass out full-strength mezz's on each target.  More of a prolonged stun, I guess.  This should keep the utility of the ability, while preventing it from being abused or considered an easy button.   My 2c.

    • 155 posts
    May 12, 2017 5:02 AM PDT

    Hopefully geared more like the EQ ENC.  Don't need crowd control gimped.  As we've already seen in the streams, there's zero lack of adds and we should be allowed to flex our skills.  IMO

    • 31 posts
    May 19, 2017 10:15 AM PDT

    I say, let people have their fun - no limit on mez counts. 

     

    I could see something else though - perhaps a higher mana costs for mezzing more than 5 mobs at once if we ABSOLUTELY must have some limitations...but I still say...let people have their fun. No limits.

     

    The reason is that major multiple pulls aren't commonplace. Since they happen occasionally, let that rare moment be an experience of fun, not frustration.

     

    Back when I played EQ during the Kunark expansion, I remember that my group's puller accidentally pulled about 20 sarnaks from sarnak castle. I managed to crowd control the whole situation for the next 20-30 minutes while my group slowly chipped away at the gigantic haul. It was nail-biting, scary, rough, and intense...and probably the most fun and memorable experiences I ever had in my gaming career. You should encourage memorable moments...not take them away from players.


    This post was edited by RpTheHotrod at May 19, 2017 10:18 AM PDT
    • 15 posts
    May 24, 2017 11:51 PM PDT

    RpTheHotrod said:Back when I played EQ during the Kunark expansion, I remember that my group's puller accidentally pulled about 20 sarnaks from sarnak castle. I managed to crowd control the whole situation for the next 20-30 minutes while my group slowly chipped away at the gigantic haul. It was nail-biting, scary, rough, and intense...and probably the most fun and memorable experiences I ever had in my gaming career. You should encourage memorable moments...not take them away from players.

     

    Got to love the old days like that, good Enchanters were like gods.


    This post was edited by dragonpriest at May 24, 2017 11:52 PM PDT
    • 157 posts
    August 19, 2017 10:23 AM PDT

    You should be able to mezz as many mobs as your mana can handle. anything less would take the fun out of the class.

    When i left EQ1 in 2005 for EQ2 and started an Illusionist there, you could only mezz one mob at a time and while you had it mezzed, you couldnt move or do anything else. it was bunk. they changed it later, but mezz was still not as important in EQ2 as it was in EQ1, also bunk.

    • 57 posts
    October 17, 2017 4:01 PM PDT

    I hope there is much more than "AOE MEZ". It may just be me, but I disliked AOE mez due to the fact that I like AOE damage...if all mobs are mezzed, would wizards/summoners have any reason to save their mana burning two or more mobs at once (AOE damage does a lot of damage btw)? When I played Enchanter I would do all I could to PREVENT the pulling of adds using Pacify, etc. Enchanters should prevent bad pulls from happening in the first place...otherwise we end up being an inverse Cleric that typically reacts to bad pulls.

    It should be harder to mez a mob that has taken damage, and more berserk mobs should be insanely resistant to CC (but maybe root or stun works better on them).

    It's not good to have Enchanters do everything that is CC...I like having other people and things do my dirty work. My favorite time as an Enchanter was pulling my own mobs with Pacify, Tash, Memblur, and lots of watching my group bang on a single mob (I was dealing with Orcs in the commonlands). During times when I wasn't pulling, I found out just how much I needed to use AOE Mez (who else could deal with multiple mobs as effectively? Hopefully they give Summoner the ability to physically CC groups of mobs with their 'summoned barriers' and such).

    Pantheon shouldn't limit Mezzes, but it should make it harder to mez certain mobs, and it should be learned the names of these mobs. Enchanters shouldn't be able to stop everything...there should be a noticable case of anti-CC so that there'll be a reason to have multiple Enchanters.

    Pulling is usually the start of crowd controlling, while taunting is the most simplistic, but less energy exhausting form.

    An Enchanter should probably make it so that AOE damage becomes the norm rather than locking down everything and making the game less enjoyable or chaotic...taking down mobs takes so long, and doing it one at a time!? People who love playing Enchanter may say differently, but for someone who concentrates in doing the most damage with the least amount of energy and spells it is vital not to slow down the action to a crawl. EQ2 went too far with AOE damage vs CC and was too chaotic while EQ1 was more CC than AOE damage...surely there is a way to make Enchanters simplify massive damage from the other classes (I feel that this is the hardest thing an Enchanter can do if it's made possible). Why have AOE damage spells once again if they're never used? Wizards in EQ1 could have been great if they could use their AOE nukes in groups.

    • 1714 posts
    October 17, 2017 4:41 PM PDT

    I used to do all those things pulling as an enchanter too when I could, but sometimes it doesn't matter, you get multiple mobs for whatever reason.  When I was an enchanter if you tried to AoE down all of the mobs, somebody in the group was going to die.  You didn't have magicians and necromancers and wizards who could practically tank a standard mob.  If a cloth wearer got agro, the cleric was about to lose a lot of mana trying to keep them alive.

    That's why I liked playing an enchanter.  If the group was fighting creatures that could AoE mez, then I just AoE stunned, otherwise I would mez everything I could.  I would help with pulls to ensure you got the best, but when the Ghoul Lord could harm touch you for 90% of your life then run up and beat you down for the rest before you could get even close to the group, pulling as an enchanter wasn't an option.  Same thing with nukes from the arch magi (which was later renamed to the arch magus), two nukes and you were dead as a caster.

    That's the kind of challenge I'm hoping for in this game.  I'm hoping that as an enchanter I'd have to figure out how to best handle any situation, which may even require learning by XP loss on occasion.

    Don't get me wrong, when I could, I always loved helping pull mobs using pacify and mem blur.  I just hope that being able to always single-pull isn't an option, and XP groups don't devolve into AoE Stun/AoE damage for maximum xp.

    • 655 posts
    October 17, 2017 5:28 PM PDT

    The skill of your enchanter and effective communication in your group will be large factors in whether your enchanter is comfortable (and ready) to handle AoE nukes, etc...    The enchanter was always one class where you wanted someone who was focused on their main and not spending too much time playing their monk alt.   There was a lot of skill, timing and strategy involved and I found that being a short time away from my enchanter would completely knock me off my A-game.  It wasn't too hard to be a good EQ enchanter.  It took hard work and practice to be great.

    I'd vote for no mob limit on AoE spells (Mez or even DD).  Make the number of mobs dependent only on the spell radius and how skillfully your puller can keep them grouped when they are incoming.  Throw some resists on those mobs so the caster is gaining aggro on those failed spells then let the caster and their group deal with the consequences.  A well-tuned group will handle it.  A novice group might elect to avoid AoE damage because it's too hot to handle.

    A properly equipped caster should be able to withstand a short beating with buffs, resist gear, runes, etc...   AoE mez resists need to be dealt with quickly and not necessarily exclusively by the enchanter.  A truly wise enchanter won't always try to be the group rock star and will coordinate with others in the group who will assist with roots, stuns, etc.

    The other important aspect is for enchanters to be patient, not scream constantly at the group for breaking mez and to educate others as to how they can best help you.  I can recall numerous deaths in pickup groups where some melee class thought the best way to keep the enchanter alive was to melee the mob I had stunned, built up mega agro on and just mezzed.   Pantheon is going to be a whole new ball of wax so everyone is going to have to adjust their expectations of what they've always expected from various classes.

       


    This post was edited by Celandor at October 17, 2017 5:30 PM PDT
    • 1714 posts
    October 17, 2017 5:50 PM PDT

    Celandor said:

    The other important aspect is for enchanters to be patient, not scream constantly at the group for breaking mez and to educate others as to how they can best help you.  I can recall numerous deaths in pickup groups where some melee class thought the best way to keep the enchanter alive was to melee the mob I had stunned, built up mega agro on and just mezzed.   Pantheon is going to be a whole new ball of wax so everyone is going to have to adjust their expectations of what they've always expected from various classes.

    I remember having to teach everyone how to group with an enchanter.  I used to even carry an Executioner's Axe on me to give to the tanks that only carried a Painbringer, thinking it was the greatest weapon ever.  Was fun days  :)

    • 1217 posts
    October 18, 2017 5:18 PM PDT

    kelenin said:

    AE mez was definitely fun, took some practice to figure out the area so you didn't catch yourself in it.

    I had a box chanter, couldn't tell up how many times she mezzed herself. 

    • 4 posts
    December 18, 2017 7:22 AM PST

    It just seems like there is no way to get around the tank, cleric and enchanter being the most power classes in the game by need.  Boxing was the only solution, but what that did is let those three classes do everything without anyone elses help.  Not sure how this is avoided when the same basic class makeups and roles are roughly the same as every other mmmorpg out there.  No-box servers did nothing to solve the issue.  Adding Mercs or helpers to the games just made them more isolated.  

    I guess it all depends on how much boxing and camping will be allowed by VR.  By allowing boxing VR gains huge ammounts of subs which means money.  The down side is it destroys the community approach to a game.  

    Once that part is decided the rest just falls into place.  We will see which way VR goes with this.