Forums » The Ogres

Dumb or Not?

    • 1915 posts
    December 31, 2016 5:01 PM PST

    Are Pantheon Ogres dumb, like they are often portrayed in games?

    The Lore indicates much smarter, the books of knowledge and all that. 

    They appear to be very martial, agressive, and tribal, but not necessarily stupid or dumb.

    Might we see Ogre mages or will Shamans and Dire Lords be all the magic we see from Ogres?

    • 1165 posts
    December 31, 2016 10:11 PM PST

    They seem less dumb than in EverQuest, but I still imagine Shamans and Dire Lords will be the extent of their magic-users.  They seem pretty primitive.  It's hard to tell since we know so little about the classes.  Also, we know the ogres are all about war, but we haven't read/heard about them having gods of other evil things. 

    • 4561 posts
    January 1, 2017 4:32 AM PST

    I think it's pretty clear that they are smart mainly when it comes to war. It's important to remember that there are different types of intelligence. 

    Ogres are a militaristic society, therefore they are at least smart enough to be organized. It takes a fair amount of intelligence to assign ranks, train troops and create effective weaponry. Not to the mention the fact they must be master tacticians and strategists to be successful in their conquests. That requires them to be capable of learning, problem-solving, and metacognition. I think of Ogres in Pantheon as the Uruk-hai in LOTR when compared to the Orcs. The Uruk-hai are much more disciplined and focused. They are well-trained and they have quality weapons and armor for specific purposes. It's safe to assume Uruk-hai are "smarter" than the generic Orcs. But of course they're still pretty ugly, gross, and have no magical powers. War is their thing and they do it well. I think the same goes for the Ogres in Terminus. They don't just sit around and pick their nose and scratch their butt. I, for one, am excited about it. "Smart" comes in all different forms. Intelligence doesn't automatically mean magic.

    • 1915 posts
    January 1, 2017 8:35 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    They seem less dumb than in EverQuest, but I still imagine Shamans and Dire Lords will be the extent of their magic-users.  They seem pretty primitive.  It's hard to tell since we know so little about the classes.  Also, we know the ogres are all about war, but we haven't read/heard about them having gods of other evil things. 

    The lore discusses their gods. That's where the seven books come from.

    • 1165 posts
    January 1, 2017 10:37 AM PST

    Unless I missed something, the lore doesn't really 'discuss' the Graven Hold.  It mentions that their territorial boundaries were set by the Graven Hold and that the Tomes of War were created by them and disseminated to the Ogres.  I didn't see anything about whether individual gods have different domains or if it's just a situation where all of the members share the same interests.  What I was getting at, though (in EverQuest terms at least), is that we know most of them would worship Rallos Zek (God of War), but we don't yet know if they would worship Cazic Thule (God of Fear).  I definitely wouldn't say that war is a good thing, but it seems that they have some pretty good qualities.  The lore mentions that they have 'an umatched respect for valor and courage' coming from both friends and enemies.  That makes me wonder if they would be Dire Lords, actually.  But then I really don't know what a Dire Lord is yet, so who knows?  Bazgrim makes a pretty good point that intelligence does not necessarily mean magic, but we had Ogre Shadowknights (Used INT for casting) in EverQuest despite their intelligence being ridiculously low, so again, who knows at this point?  I think shamans are a pretty safe assumption here, though.

     

    EDIT:  Added some parenthetics for clarity.


    This post was edited by Shucklighter at January 1, 2017 10:43 AM PST
    • 2428 posts
    January 1, 2017 12:00 PM PST

    I predict Ogres will have the fewest class choices:  Warrior, Dire Lord, Shaman.

    But are the Ogres dumb?  No.  What they are, in my view, is a race narrowly focused on a few thing.  Embellishments of style and creativity aren't something that interest Ogres unlike what you see from Elves or Humans.  Simplistic perhaps? Nah, too negative.  I think Ogres follow the notion that form follows function.  Once you have that, you stop.  Nothing else is needed.  Swords, armor, etc can still be impressive in design because you can immediately identify its function.

    • 13 posts
    February 28, 2017 1:42 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    Shucklighter said:

    They seem less dumb than in EverQuest, but I still imagine Shamans and Dire Lords will be the extent of their magic-users.  They seem pretty primitive.  It's hard to tell since we know so little about the classes.  Also, we know the ogres are all about war, but we haven't read/heard about them having gods of other evil things. 

    The lore discusses their gods. That's where the seven books come from.

     

    This. So much this. I don't see any indication that because the Ogres are a war/conquest driven race, they will be lacking in intelligence.  It drove me crazy that in EQ2 - when the Ogre's curse was lifted, they were still portrayed as big and dumb. One of the characters I had the most fun with from a roleplay stand point was my Ogress. She was not only a devoted follower of Rallos Zek but she was a Battle Mage and -very- intelligent. She also ran a tavern but that's not really the point. Heh. I'm interested in getting a look at the Ogre females, hopefully soon. 

    Also to note that war in and of itself, I woulnd't think would be -evil-. It's what people choose to do during a time of war that might be considered evil. Chaotic yes, evil...eeeh. It depends on the point of view. It's mentioned that the ogres place great value on a few qualities that are certainly not what we'd typically consider to be evil in any way. I hope they flesh out the lore with some more information at some point. 

    • 3422 posts
    March 10, 2017 6:58 AM PST

    From what I have gathered, the ogres of Terminus will actually be quited advanced, particularly when it comes to waging war.  This sounds infinitely more interesting than the good ol' butt scratchers that we have been accustomed to ... can't wait to see their starting city and how they interact with other races!  Also interested to hear about their racial bonus ... usually it's some sort of raw HP/defensive stat increase ... maybe this will be getting tweaked some too?  Considering they ogres only have 2 archetypes available, tank/healer, I think defense is the way to go.

    • 289 posts
    March 12, 2017 4:24 PM PDT

    Hmm now that we know that Ogres can be Dire Lords, Druids, Shamans, and Warriors, I am curious as to how Druid fits into the Ogre concept.  Is it because of the nomadic/tribal lifestyle they have or is it because they rely on all aspects of the world at large for what they have/need?  I prefer to think of Ogres even the original EQ1 ogres as not dumb but as Vandraad said "function over form" why worry about what the steel boot looks like as long as it keeps the foot from being sliced/biten off. 

     

    As to the racial bonus, I personally would prefer for them to be able to sense/see resources for their class.  Ogres were one of the first races brought to Terminus even before Humans and elves so they have had the luxury of time over those races to learn more about Terminus.  If  healer they are able to see/sense herbs and one time use components for situations, for tanks they are able to see strategic things like that lose boulder or that half fallen tree and have options to use them in the perception system for tanking.