I did a quick search and got lazy around page 8 of returns as I didn't see a thread specific to this one jump out at me. Please link it up so I can read up if I missed it. There was a collision discussion that mentioned it, but I view it slightly differently than this topic.
Raiding as a melee in most games and more specifically a rogue, it is near and dear to me because positioning matters more than other melee classes. I also got annoyed that someone's boredom could impact my ability to contribute max "DEEPS" (DPS) b/c they decided to reposition an NPC.
Will Pantheon have the need to mitigate every classes push or can we enjoy a non-pushy world in Terminus?
A few EQ classic approaches are as follows:
1. The "typewriter" on a wall by pushing it back and forth.... and calling FLIP when you hit a spot.
2. Pinning a mob into a corner, firepot or wall only to have it get loose on you or cause a certain class to not use a nice ability simply because of the push that is involved in it? Also, a nice sub-category is when the NPC got pushed under the world and summoned the tank down with em!
3. Circle Dance - Everyone shoves it around the tank in the middle....
4. Chaos - the name says it all.
5. Wall of Ogur - This went away when collision went away, but basically create a Night at the Roxbury sandwich of the NPC and not let it move.
EQ is the only game in existence that had push in that sense, as far as I know. It was also very cheaply done and wouldn't look/feel good at all in a game like Pantheon. Fortunately, it didn't seem like push exists in the livestream.
Manually repositioning mobs by using abilities is something I'm fine with. Generic push as a result of standard melee attacks was ridiculous, though. Removing it was one of the best changes they ever made to EQ, even though it still exists in other forms.
Liav said:EQ is the only game in existence that had push in that sense, as far as I know. It was also very cheaply done and wouldn't look/feel good at all in a game like Pantheon. Fortunately, it didn't seem like push exists in the livestream.
Manually repositioning mobs by using abilities is something I'm fine with. Generic push as a result of standard melee attacks was ridiculous, though. Removing it was one of the best changes they ever made to EQ, even though it still exists in other forms.
They may have tried to remove it, but the struggle is still real in current content.
I hope it is not there personally, however some tanks may enjoy it since managing this detail was a fairly huge discriminating factor in ability.
Warben said:They may have tried to remove it, but the struggle is still real in current content.
I hope it is not there personally, however some tanks may enjoy it since managing this detail was a fairly huge discriminating factor in ability.
It was removed from normal melee.
Stun procs and some caster nukes still generate push, however.
Beefcake said:NPCs should be movable by special abilities, such a melee knock back, gush of wind type spell, or a minor teleportation spell. Moving mobs is an important part of effective strategies. But, this should not be part of an auto-attack situation.
I agree completely. We need to have some means by which we can move an NPC from one position to another and to do so should take specialized attacks or abilities. By the same token, the NPC should have the 'desire', for lack of a better word, to want to remain where it was and use abilities to shove us out of the way and return to where it has the best position.
Beefcake said:NPCs should be movable by special abilities, such a melee knock back, gush of wind type spell, or a minor teleportation spell. Moving mobs is an important part of effective strategies. But, this should not be part of an auto-attack situation.
Nephretiti said:And I hope we all agree that pushing a mob off a bridge will kill it if the fall damage is high enough. Right? Guys? Am I right? Fall damage vs. mobs?
If the kill removes the ability to gain xp or loot from the death, sure. Otherwise it's ripe for massive exploitation.
And yes, I know that I just said in the mob tagging thread that generally I'm against mechanics that are meant to prevent a player from guilt. But this is one that has just far too much possibility for trivializing content.
Just imagine what amberfaet would be like if you could loot enemies that died from falling damage. You would have a crew of pushers up top with 1 member down at the bottom just picking over the corpses of the hundreds of gargoyles and dwarves that get tossed down below. I figure you all were kidding anyhow though. I would argue that any mob that takes 50+% of its damage due to falling should be considered as killed by the environment and be unlootable and yield no experience.
Ainadak said:Just imagine what amberfaet would be like if you could loot enemies that died from falling damage. You would have a crew of pushers up top with 1 member down at the bottom just picking over the corpses of the hundreds of gargoyles and dwarves that get tossed down below. I figure you all were kidding anyhow though. I would argue that any mob that takes 50+% of its damage due to falling should be considered as killed by the environment and be unlootable and yield no experience.
Good point. Even with the proposed 30% mechanic I can see the potential to bypass content by shoving mobs off of cliffs instead of wasting time killing them to get to where you need to be.
There's also bugs with falling damage than randomly happen in almost every game I've played and are close to impossible to diagnose and fix. Would hate to see a raid boss just trip and fall on a rock for 32k damage.