Forums » The Summoner

Summoner Role in Quaternary System

    • 26 posts
    December 15, 2016 10:41 PM PST

    We know Patheon will have a quaternary system (Tank, Heal, Damage, Support) and will include 12 classes at launch. We know that each role will be equally important and the developers have really been stressing that the quaternary system will be a staple to a group composition. With this is mind, let's assume that the classes are split equally between the 4 roles.

    Tank - Warrior, Crusader, Dire Lord

    Heal - Cleric, Druid, Shaman

    Damage - Rogue, Monk, Wizard

    Support - Enchanter, Ranger, Summoner

    Of course this is spectulation, but I think it is pretty safe to assume what most roles are for most classes (Summoner and Ranger seem to be the only outliers). If this is true, I can see the Summoner class being a much more interesting class than I originally thought. At first, I just imagined that the Summoner would be a close playstyle to the Mage in EQ1. The class didn't really apeal to me because I always saw the Mage as a weaker Wizard (not as strong nukes), but with the added bonus of a pet; thus the ability to solo. If the Summoner is indeed going to be a support class then it may shape up to be a much more interesting class then just a sole magic based DPS class.

    All we know for certain is that the Enchanter will be a true support class. Enchanters have the ability the Mesmerize and will likely have an array of buffs reminiscent to EQ1 like mana regeneration. If the Summoner is to be on par with the support of an Enchanter or at least is suppose to fulfill the support role in absence of an Enchanter then I really feel this brings a whole new deminsion of possible gameplay to the class.

    My envision would be to allow the Summoner a massive array of different pets and elementals to summon. Instead of having the Summoner focus on casting magically damage spells, I think it would be awesome if the class was primarily focused on pet/ summoned elementals management. Imagine if the Summoner could summon multiple pets at once to fulfill different needs of the group. For instance, the Enchanter has mesmerize for croud control so the Summoner could have a rock elemental pet to act as off-tank for group CC. The purpose of the rock elemental would only be to off-tank the adds while the tank focuses on holding threat on the main target while DPS nuke it down. The healer wouldn't have to waste mana healing the rock elemental because its purpose is only to keep the adds off the tank and mitigate the damage. The role of the rock element would be to hold aggro until its death (similar to how mesmerize only has a specific duration). 

    At the same time the Summoner could also summon a water elemental which could serve as either providing an AoE healing of time for the group or something akin to mana regeneration bonus for group. The bonuses that the water elemental brings to the group may draw aggro to it, so the summoner would have a fun minigame controlling his pets/elementals. Having the rock elemental maintain aggro on the adds so the water elemental doesn't die while positioning the water elemental in an area were the group members would benefit from the effects.

    Adding to this the Summoner could also summon a fire elemental to dish out some DPS and perhaps add some bonus strength buffs.

    These elemental pets may also provide the group with different resistances buffs; however, if you have opposite elements summoned at the same time (Fire and Ice) then the resistance buffs would cancel each other out. So the Summoner would have to decide should he only summon the Fire elemental for the fire resistance or is it worth it to have both the Fire and Ice elemental and loose out on the resistance bonuses they may provide for other buffs that they bring.

    Granted, each elemental summon should take a heavy toll on the Summoners mana pool so that the class isn't OP by summoning 5+ elementals every fight. The Summoner would have to manage his resources and decide if the fight can manage with only summoning 2 elementals and saving some mana for the unexpected moments when an add spawns or aggros and the rock elemental needs to be summoned. I also forgot to mention that the summons would have to be duration based and not permanent.

    If this is the gameplay we can expect out of the Summoner then what I otherwise would have considered a lackluster class may be the perfect class for me. And that is coming from a player who generally despises pet classes.

    What do you guys think? Would you like to see the Summoner fulfill the support role? Would you like for the Summoner to be able to cast multiple pets/ elementals at once?

     


    This post was edited by Korashi at December 15, 2016 11:42 PM PST
    • 293 posts
    December 17, 2016 10:43 PM PST

    Sounds like 1/2 the concept of FFXI Summoner. I thought it was a very good idea, but the transitioning between pets needs to be very smooth and relatively quick or it will fall to the same clunkiness and inability to quickly react.

    • 1968 posts
    December 21, 2016 10:03 PM PST

    The 4th...or 3rd, depending on which generation of mmorpgs you come from, role in the quaternity is crowd control, not support. 

    I'm not expecting a summoner to get crowd control abilities.  Are you?  In EQ that was Enchanter/Bard only.  Granted in EQ mages (equivalent to the summoner) did get a spell that let them mez summoned creatures.  Other classes got similar spells for undead etc.  But they were so limited that they were used very rarely.

    We do know they are giving classes in Pantheon other than the enchanter some minor CC abilities (the cleric ability Pillar Shield has been revealed).  Maybe other classes like the summoner will get something similar?  I'd think a summon wall might act similarly to pillar shield and seems reasonable.  The difference is that these are only useful in specific/limited situations.

    If the Summoner is to be on par with the support of an Enchanter or at least is suppose to fulfill the support role in absence of an Enchanter then I really feel this brings a whole new deminsion of possible gameplay to the class.

    My thinking is much different from the above statement. I don't think anyone expects a summoner to be able to fill the role of an enchanter?  Do they?

    • 293 posts
    December 22, 2016 9:12 AM PST

    I don't see why they couldn't fill a similar archetype. They will obviously have different abilities, but that's true of any two jobs. 

    • 1968 posts
    December 22, 2016 10:11 AM PST

    Jimmayus said:

    I don't see why they couldn't fill a similar archetype. They will obviously have different abilities, but that's true of any two jobs. 

    The similar archetype would have to be crowd control.  I guess we are to far apart in what we think the role of a summoner will be.  Most people seem to be basing their ideas on what a classes role will be on EQ.  Maybe that is a mistake?  You might be right.  It could be very different than what most people expect.

    • 293 posts
    December 27, 2016 9:59 PM PST

    I mean from what I understand of Everquest they also had a bard class (which appears to be coming to Pantheon as well, if not at release then in the future) which had auras, and enchantress itself had what appear to be buffs not the least of which is the mana regen buff. I apologize if this is not a great understanding as I never played EQ.

    I bring them up though, because I imagine Summoner would fall more squarely as a "job that is sort of like a bard or enchantress" more than anything.  It might have skills like roots and whatnot, or perhaps its cc would be even softer, like the op suggested: a "tank" pet or one that distracts an enemy in some other fashion. I dunno, I feel like that is a pretty compelling style of gameplay.

    I only mainly care about Summoner because XI's summoner enthralled me so completely, and I'd love to see another well executed class concept like it.

    • 1968 posts
    December 28, 2016 8:46 AM PST

    Jimmayus said:

    I mean from what I understand of Everquest they also had a bard class (which appears to be coming to Pantheon as well, if not at release then in the future) which had auras, and enchantress itself had what appear to be buffs not the least of which is the mana regen buff. I apologize if this is not a great understanding as I never played EQ.

    I bring them up though, because I imagine Summoner would fall more squarely as a "job that is sort of like a bard or enchantress" more than anything.  It might have skills like roots and whatnot, or perhaps its cc would be even softer, like the op suggested: a "tank" pet or one that distracts an enemy in some other fashion. I dunno, I feel like that is a pretty compelling style of gameplay.

    I only mainly care about Summoner because XI's summoner enthralled me so completely, and I'd love to see another well executed class concept like it.

     

    No worries.  There is definitely a misunderstanding and I think it might stem from not experiencing crowd control in a game like EQ.  Many classes get root or snare or a pet that can offtank for a bit.  Those pale in comparison to the enchanter/bard crowd control to the point that trying to make that comparison seems a bit silly.  There was never a time in years of playing EQ that our group thought that a mage (similar to the summoner) or any class that can root could do the job of an enchanter or bard if crowd control was necessary.  That's just not in the same ball park.

    Like I mention above, maybe this game will be different?  Maybe the summoner class reveal will open our eyes to what the summoner's potential is?

    • 1915 posts
    December 28, 2016 12:36 PM PST

    I originally thought they would be more DPS, but after reading the forums here, they seem more support.

    • 94 posts
    December 28, 2016 7:14 PM PST

    Not really anything but speculation at this point. If they go by EQ they will be mainly DPS once the fight starts but able to summon certain things to use and or get ready for the fighting. Again nothing but speculation until the point in thime when the Summoner class has a "learn more" link on the class page.