Beefcake said:If I have learned anything from modern politics, I am more concerned about the tyranny of the minority.
If you're claiming that this isn't a real life political reference, then you're just being dishonest. Talking about Big Brother is more ambiguous but when combined with the quoted statement, welp, I'm done.
Liav good to see you back and active, spicing things up again in the forums!! :)
Back to the direct topic...
All I really want is a text indicator, time stamped, of which character aggroed mob(s) first so I can then throw it in their face that they were wrong and move on... As long as there is actually proof who got what first, to me that is all that matters.
For Named, rares or quest mobs, I kind of got the feeling from last Twitch that it could result in who does the most damage (solo or grouped)... So in this example, if a group steals it but you could show them legitimately that you aggroed first, at least you have a case to call them out By showing them the time stamped aggro message.
Pyye said:Liav good to see you back and active, spicing things up again in the forums!! :)
Hey! Long time no see.
Pyye said:Back to the direct topic...
All I really want is a text indicator, time stamped, of which character aggroed mob(s) first so I can then throw it in their face that they were wrong and move on... As long as there is actually proof who got what first, to me that is all that matters.
For Named, rares or quest mobs, I kind of got the feeling from last Twitch that it could result in who does the most damage (solo or grouped)... So in this example, if a group steals it but you could show them legitimately that you aggroed first, at least you have a case to call them out By showing them the time stamped aggro message.
Chat logs certainly come in handy for that but they can also be doctored easily.
What are you talking about? I never doctor my DPS before I paste it. Baseless accusations right there!
:)
When we start testing, I am going to play the part of the self-absorbed a-hole and will attempt to KS everyone and everything. Please understand = I don't WANT to - but it needs to be done. I will do this because I would rather we address it now (during testing) than waiting until release. I have been playing Brads games since May of 99. I have come across every scenario you can thinik of etc. I would like to make sure that these issues don't crop up after launch. If I do this to you I am sorry. Just say something and I will give you any loot for it etc. Just remember - it is a test so the loot means nothing.
Personally, I think there needs to be two mechanics placed in the game. 1. A single stroke encounter lock initiated by ANYONE currently invovled with the mob. Once the mob is locked NO OTHER help can be had. So if three groups are currently involved with a mob and a random anyone in any of those groups locks it, then credit goes to everyone invovled but no one else can help. and 2, a sliding scale loot table that takes into account the amount of damage done by any one person/group. Meaning, (and this is very crude) if 64 people attack a skeleton then his loot table is adjust to take into account that 64 helped kill him. You might get a piece of toe fungus. If 3 guys manage a miraculous kill and down something truly diabolical, then they should enjoy a loot modifier that actually increases the loot so that all three gets something really nice. If however someone solo's something grey - then they should get no midifier at all. But they should get a baseline loot table.
Liav said:Chat logs certainly come in handy for that but they can also be doctored easily.
What are you talking about? I never doctor my DPS before I paste it. Baseless accusations right there!
:)
Not when they are server side and used as a tool by the devs to investigate a grievence.
I'm generally on the side of not building mechanics that make things impossible and policing/punishing players who are abusive to the rules. It allows far greater emergent behavior, which is one of the reasons that I liked EQ over any other game I've ever played that tried to make it impossible for the players to be guilty at the expense of freedom.
Obviously there are things that must have a mechanic so that the game isnt completely exploited and flat out broken. But I'm not sure this particular topic is one of them. It takes a greater investment by the developer to provide staff (or volunteers) that investigate issues. That can have it's own issues with favoritism, nepotism, etc. But overall, that coupled with a degree of community policing thru reputation that can't be escaped with name changes and spinning up a new character in a week goes a long way to curbing abuses.
Nephretiti said:When we start testing, I am going to play the part of the self-absorbed a-hole and will attempt to KS everyone and everything. Please understand = I don't WANT to - but it needs to be done. I will do this because I would rather we address it now (during testing) than waiting until release. I have been playing Brads games since May of 99. I have come across every scenario you can thinik of etc. I would like to make sure that these issues don't crop up after launch. If I do this to you I am sorry. Just say something and I will give you any loot for it etc. Just remember - it is a test so the loot means nothing.
Personally, I think there needs to be two mechanics placed in the game. 1. A single stroke encounter lock initiated by ANYONE currently invovled with the mob. Once the mob is locked NO OTHER help can be had. So if three groups are currently involved with a mob and a random anyone in any of those groups locks it, then credit goes to everyone invovled but no one else can help. and 2, a sliding scale loot table that takes into account the amount of damage done by any one person/group. Meaning, (and this is very crude) if 64 people attack a skeleton then his loot table is adjust to take into account that 64 helped kill him. You might get a piece of toe fungus. If 3 guys manage a miraculous kill and down something truly diabolical, then they should enjoy a loot modifier that actually increases the loot so that all three gets something really nice. If however someone solo's something grey - then they should get no midifier at all. But they should get a baseline loot table.
I would hope that you are kidding, because this is the most idiotic thing I've read in awhile. Basically your saying it's not enough to wait and see if there is an issue, let's create the issue so you can have your way. So what exactly is it about waiting until the issue is real before creating systems to prevent it that is so hard for you to deal with? Based on past experience, if it does happen it will be few and far between. So if it is something that needs to be addressed, it's not like It will be game ending waiting for it to be fixed.
I played EQ1 for eight years, much of it in high end raiding and rarely experienced any real issue with KSing. Some of you are really over inflating how big of an issue this really has been in he past, as well as assuming the community is just going to be packed with a__holes. Again the number of a__holes in that game were low, that's because of main draw that Pantheon is going for, community. Heck I've been playing P1999 lately and I'm once again seeing considerate and helpful players.
As for your locking no other help idea...OMFG NO!!!! That was one of the WORST ideas that came out of EQ2, absolutely horrible idea. The locked combat mechanic in EQ2 alone was a huge negative to the game in beta, the devs didn't listen and it was an epic failure at launch. It was so bad that in a short amount of time they gave you the ability to yell for help and break the lock....but who the hell is going to be reaching for that button when they are about to die. It didn't work, people hated it. Nothing like watching some guy getting his ass handed to him and you can't help him......
Riply said:I played EQ1 for eight years, much of it in high end raiding and rarely experienced any real issue with KSing. Some of you are really over inflating how big of an issue this really has been in he past, as well as assuming the community is just going to be packed with a__holes. Again the number of a__holes in that game were low, that's because of main draw that Pantheon is going for, community. Heck I've been playing P1999 lately and I'm once again seeing considerate and helpful players.
Have you played during the original era though? I remember countless times where guilds have tried to train us off of bosses because we beat them there. Hell I remember full on guild wars between 3-4 guilds over Sol Ro in the planes because 1 guild was trying to block the others from keying. Saying it didn't happen just means that you were on a server that was lucky. For most of us this was a common thing. Basically, we had to time spawns and have people watching them profusely during the spawn windows and had maybe 5 mins to mobilize forces to take them down before we were at war with another guild over it. And by war I don't mean DPS racing, I mean generally being trained with 20+ mobs by 3-4 monks over and over again until we wiped at 15% so they could take it.
There are good people out there but there are also those that will do whatever it takes to be the top. If you are one of those that doesn't mind being a tier behind in bosses then sure it is of no consequence. But for those of us who push content when current, it's a big concern and the cause of a lot of animosity in the past. Hell it's the reason there is a rotation on P99 because the community couldn't play nice.
Nephretiti said:When we start testing, I am going to play the part of the self-absorbed a-hole and will attempt to KS everyone and everything. Please understand = I don't WANT to - but it needs to be done. I will do this because I would rather we address it now (during testing) than waiting until release. I have been playing Brads games since May of 99. I have come across every scenario you can thinik of etc. I would like to make sure that these issues don't crop up after launch. If I do this to you I am sorry. Just say something and I will give you any loot for it etc. Just remember - it is a test so the loot means nothing.
Personally, I think there needs to be two mechanics placed in the game. 1. A single stroke encounter lock initiated by ANYONE currently invovled with the mob. Once the mob is locked NO OTHER help can be had. So if three groups are currently involved with a mob and a random anyone in any of those groups locks it, then credit goes to everyone invovled but no one else can help. and 2, a sliding scale loot table that takes into account the amount of damage done by any one person/group. Meaning, (and this is very crude) if 64 people attack a skeleton then his loot table is adjust to take into account that 64 helped kill him. You might get a piece of toe fungus. If 3 guys manage a miraculous kill and down something truly diabolical, then they should enjoy a loot modifier that actually increases the loot so that all three gets something really nice. If however someone solo's something grey - then they should get no midifier at all. But they should get a baseline loot table.
This is the kind of mechanic that would drive me from the game. I HATE being put on rails and the ridiculous mechanics that, while well intentioned, make you feel as though you're constantly bouncing your head off of invisible, arbitrary, artificial walls. This is why I've fled from every MMO I've tried for years now after having spent no more than 3 months on any one of them.
I want a living breathing world. One in which I can both fail and be saved. A high percentage of MMO players that I became friends with and allied with over years were the ones I met thru the unintentional and entirely organic chance encounters like bailing their butts out of aligator's or the reverse. These are the people that showed me their worth and whom I was able to show mine. Not because either of us had anything to gain from helping, but because it was kind, and right.
I hope that you do play in exactly the way you propose. It'll give the community the oppurtunity to demonstrate the impact of completely ostracizing you, and give the devs the chance to properly balance and weight their ban sticks.
In the past three months in TLP EQ, I've personally seen with my own eyes:
Large guilds (the existence of which is justified by RL profit, purely) using every in-game mechanic possible to achieve their goals, with no thought given to community at all.
So what this means in practice is, these guilds will do absolutely ANYTHING to ensure success, up to and including:
Training / Claiming an entire zone for powerlevelling (RL profit, selling chars)
Creating new picks (public instances) of zones, for powerlevelling. (RL profit, selling chars)
Killing all Epic Quest mobs, even if they do not need them, purely to ensure Profit by preventing any other competing guilds on the server from having epic'd characters. Even triggered/spawned Epic mobs. So, they know the spawn times of these mobs to the second, and as soon as they exist, they're killed.
Same goes for quest mobs or NPC's that in any way are involved with quests or drops that would add a monetary value to a character being sold. Unique item? Dead for RL profit. Unique quest item? Dead for RL profit.
It's not a matter of casual kill stealing of two groups just XP'ing in a zone, now. It's a market driven reality that if you're not with those in competition for their JOB, that is, selling characters for USD CASH MONEY, then you have absolutely no chance whatsoever. They don't even consider the other players. Why? Because their actions do not break the Terms of Service. They never use in-game chat, so there is no record of any interactions that a GM can use to ban. There is no staff at DBG to perform server side analysis of logs to investigate or ban such players, unless the actions become so egregious and public that more than one hundred other players publicly call them out on it, and then they temporarily ban the worst offenders and go back to supporting the 12 other games on life support.
And I totally understand this is not a reflection on Pantheon. EQ1 TLP is not Pantheon in every other way except some aspects of game play. Since the latest stream, on Reddit, I saw a few comments that indicate a few potential Pantheon customers are watching how these discussions are going to pan out. In particular, mechanics like Kill Stealing, Training, Instancing, and more. I've said this before, and I think it bears repeating: It is illogical to include, by design, a mechanic that will create customer service problems and anger your target demographic.
Now, there's quite a difference between challenge, annoy, bore, restrict and Anger. I'm fine with being challenged, annoyed, bored, and restricted. I don't think Angering your potential customers is a good idea, though, not financially and not in any other way.
To consciously create an environment whereby a group of players cannot achieve their content-related goals due to the malicious actions of another group of players, in 2017+, is a non-starter. Example: Character is working on an Epic weapon quest. Having Kill Stealing as a mechanic, while at the same time preventing Epic Quest mobs from spawning in instances, is a recipe for disaster.
That's the way EQ is today, and it's terrible. There are literally people camped out for weeks at a time, hoping that someone will be bad at their EQ JOB and let an epic mob spawn live for five minutes or let a quest NPC live for 5 minutes so they can do a turn in and complete a trivial fight or conversation and move on with their personal progression. That is ... insane. It's the worst possible environment for the largest possible group of paying customers.
I also have no idea why someone would ever want or ask for such a thing, for entertainment. If me and mine want to complete an Epic quest, what possible reason could a designer have to include a game mechanic so that anyone else on the server, with one press of a button could prevent that from happening? Just let our group complete our group task in Pantheon without interference, no matter how challenging, and let the malicious players continue playing EQ. If that means instancing for Quest Tasks? Then put in instancing for Quest Tasks. If that means you can't kill / kill-steal quest mobs? Or kill quest mobs that are required for Turn-in's? Then do that. Mark those conversation-quest mobs as invulnerable and move on to creating more innovative, fun, and challenging content.
Again, I'll re-iterate it for those that didn't read all that:
Today, on TLP EQ1, people cannot complete Epic Quests because other players kill Epic Quest turn-in mobs maliciously and out of ignorance.
Today, on TLP EQ1, people cannot complete normal run-of-the-mill average quests, because other players kill NPC's that need to be interacted with or talked to for less than 5 seconds to complete that quest.
For hours, days, and weeks at a time. Not just a few minutes or hours. Continuously. If you want this in Pantheon, the niche for this game is extremely narrow indeed.
Enitzu said:Have you played during the original era though? I remember countless times where guilds have tried to train us off of bosses because we beat them there. Hell I remember full on guild wars between 3-4 guilds over Sol Ro in the planes because 1 guild was trying to block the others from keying. Saying it didn't happen just means that you were on a server that was lucky. For most of us this was a common thing. Basically, we had to time spawns and have people watching them profusely during the spawn windows and had maybe 5 mins to mobilize forces to take them down before we were at war with another guild over it. And by war I don't mean DPS racing, I mean generally being trained with 20+ mobs by 3-4 monks over and over again until we wiped at 15% so they could take it.
There are good people out there but there are also those that will do whatever it takes to be the top. If you are one of those that doesn't mind being a tier behind in bosses then sure it is of no consequence. But for those of us who push content when current, it's a big concern and the cause of a lot of animosity in the past. Hell it's the reason there is a rotation on P99 because the community couldn't play nice.
Yes, I played from release
Riply said:Enitzu said:Have you played during the original era though? I remember countless times where guilds have tried to train us off of bosses because we beat them there. Hell I remember full on guild wars between 3-4 guilds over Sol Ro in the planes because 1 guild was trying to block the others from keying. Saying it didn't happen just means that you were on a server that was lucky. For most of us this was a common thing. Basically, we had to time spawns and have people watching them profusely during the spawn windows and had maybe 5 mins to mobilize forces to take them down before we were at war with another guild over it. And by war I don't mean DPS racing, I mean generally being trained with 20+ mobs by 3-4 monks over and over again until we wiped at 15% so they could take it.
There are good people out there but there are also those that will do whatever it takes to be the top. If you are one of those that doesn't mind being a tier behind in bosses then sure it is of no consequence. But for those of us who push content when current, it's a big concern and the cause of a lot of animosity in the past. Hell it's the reason there is a rotation on P99 because the community couldn't play nice.
Yes, I played from release
Then congrats on being lucky and picking a small server apparently. See above post to see just what you have in store for you if you think for a second that this is a non issue. It exists and it is incredible detrimental to the game as a whole.
As someone who loved early EQ and couldn't wait to hit the TLP upon release, I quickly remember just how stupid non instanced world bosses were. Hopefully the dev's use that server as their "what not to do" list because it's a **** show and if that is what comes here the game will be dead before it even has a chance
vjek said:In the past three months in TLP EQ, I've personally seen with my own eyes:
And what avenue is employed for grievences?
If there was no complaint made to the developer, it's on you.
If there was a complaint and no action was taken then one of two things is true. Either:
A) The developers are at fault for not enforcing any fair-play rules, or
B) The game doesnt have tools that allow for forensics that allow the devs to act with confidence that their ruling is equitable.
The point being that the choice is to make a game in which its not possible for a person to be an ass, and thereby make the gameplay controlled in so tight a fist that it constantly shoves walls in the player's faces, or make a game that is ripe for abuses and make no effort to punish those abuses, or make a game that allows people to be asses but has mechanisms that track and remove abusers.
I'll take the last one every day, so long as the developers make the commitment to enforcing written rules over game mechanics that always reduce the enjoyment of gameplay in unintended ways.
I don't like being KSed, but removing the possibility robs me of a mechanism that I can use to asses the integrity of the people playing around me. Honourable people need ways to demonstrate their honour, or there is no way to distinguish them from the miscreant. Considering this hidden cost of the automated policing solution you have proposed, I believe that the simple mechanism of >%50 more closely approaches the golden mean.
I would add to this discussion that people like the folks from "something awful" make far better antagonists than anything else I have ever seen in a game. I really hope that they, or someone like them, form a presence on the PvP server. It is part of the tribal nature of men that we like to have an enemy to direct our efforts against. To date, thinking people still fill this role better than any AI.
Kobrashade said:If it truly doesn't become a significant issue then that is great! I am up for giving it a shot. I love the direction Pantheon / Devs are going in so many aspects. I don't like the hand holding and systems in place in other mmos as well.
With that said, If it did become an issue: example, my brother has to work in 5 hours, we progress through a 3 hour zone, wait an 1 1/2 for mob and then it appears to have it ripped away the last minute... We probably wouldn't last long with the game. I don't want to feel like I just wasted the last 4 hours to something like that. If we wiped on the boss on our own, or failed to kill the boss: That would be entirely acceptable.
Hopefully, you guys are right and it doesn't become nearly as significant a problem. I appreciate all the feedback and confidence portrayed. It boosts me up a little each time :P
Just wondering why you're so worried about the boss being the end of the night? didn't you have just as much fun getting there? We as players..... And I include myself in this, are so worried about the end result that we forget the adventure of getting there.
If someone kill steals you at the end of your time together. Please remember the exp / loot / fun times you had in getting there and say something like. There will always be next time!
Just adding my 2 cents. I am saying all this in general and not trying to nit pick your post / thoughts on the matter.
~Pyde
vjek said:Again, I'll re-iterate it for those that didn't read all that:
Today, on TLP EQ1, people cannot complete Epic Quests because other players kill Epic Quest turn-in mobs maliciously and out of ignorance.
Today, on TLP EQ1, people cannot complete normal run-of-the-mill average quests, because other players kill NPC's that need to be interacted with or talked to for less than 5 seconds to complete that quest.
For hours, days, and weeks at a time. Not just a few minutes or hours. Continuously. If you want this in Pantheon, the niche for this game is extremely narrow indeed.
I can understand how that could be annoying, but really what your explaining is not the same thing as kill stealing, or issue with tagging. When it comes to people farming epic quest items to sell, well I'm not completely sure how I feel about that. It happened in EQ but it's just part of the farming, selling, so I can buy my stuff economy, dunno if I feel it's right or wrong.
Pyde said:Just wondering why you're so worried about the boss being the end of the night? didn't you have just as much fun getting there? We as players..... And I include myself in this, are so worried about the end result that we forget the adventure of getting there.
If someone kill steals you at the end of your time together. Please remember the exp / loot / fun times you had in getting there and say something like. There will always be next time!
Just adding my 2 cents. I am saying all this in general and not trying to nit pick your post / thoughts on the matter.
~Pyde
This is a casual mentality that not everyone shares. No offense.
Feyshtey said:And what avenue is employed for grievences?
If there was no complaint made to the developer, it's on you.
There is no way to complain when it was stated before the server launched that devs/gm's would not handle disputes in these cases. They do not have the manpower to cover all of the grievances caused by players. It would be a full time job for 20-30 people easily to handle these things and sort through right and wrong. Needs to be something in place to stop alot of the non sense without involving GMs every couple hours
Enitzu said:Riply said:Enitzu said:Have you played during the original era though? I remember countless times where guilds have tried to train us off of bosses because we beat them there. Hell I remember full on guild wars between 3-4 guilds over Sol Ro in the planes because 1 guild was trying to block the others from keying. Saying it didn't happen just means that you were on a server that was lucky. For most of us this was a common thing. Basically, we had to time spawns and have people watching them profusely during the spawn windows and had maybe 5 mins to mobilize forces to take them down before we were at war with another guild over it. And by war I don't mean DPS racing, I mean generally being trained with 20+ mobs by 3-4 monks over and over again until we wiped at 15% so they could take it.
There are good people out there but there are also those that will do whatever it takes to be the top. If you are one of those that doesn't mind being a tier behind in bosses then sure it is of no consequence. But for those of us who push content when current, it's a big concern and the cause of a lot of animosity in the past. Hell it's the reason there is a rotation on P99 because the community couldn't play nice.
Yes, I played from release
Then congrats on being lucky and picking a small server apparently. See above post to see just what you have in store for you if you think for a second that this is a non issue. It exists and it is incredible detrimental to the game as a whole.
As someone who loved early EQ and couldn't wait to hit the TLP upon release, I quickly remember just how stupid non instanced world bosses were. Hopefully the dev's use that server as their "what not to do" list because it's a **** show and if that is what comes here the game will be dead before it even has a chance
Eh no, I actually played on heavily populated servers. I never said it did not happen, but it sure didn't happen constantly like you are trying to imply.
See part of the fundamental problem with this conversation is what you precieve as being bad is something many of us have enjoyed over the years. From your post you basically are saying you hated how contested world bosses were. Personally I thought competing and even racing other guilds to a boss was actually alot of fun back in the day. And before you say it, my guild was one of the top 3 on the server, but we were also known as the guild that wouldn't do dirty things to others to get what we wanted, so yes we lost the race alot, but when we won it was great.
Enitzu said:Feyshtey said:And what avenue is employed for grievences?
If there was no complaint made to the developer, it's on you.
There is no way to complain when it was stated before the server launched that devs/gm's would not handle disputes in these cases. They do not have the manpower to cover all of the grievances caused by players. It would be a full time job for 20-30 people easily to handle these things and sort through right and wrong. Needs to be something in place to stop alot of the non sense without involving GMs every couple hours
Not exactly a fair comparison between a game in its twilight hours, that has been sold off twice, turned into a cash shop, with little to no support by Daybreak....and a new game in which Brad has already expressed an interest in dedictated GM and Guide support.
I don't know if you played early EQ1 but it did very much have a GM/Guide system that would actively handle disputes, if and when they happened. That's what they are there for, to help the community. Heck I remember even having an arguement with a GM over rights to a boss mob.....entire guild was ported to Plane of Hate without notice, we wiped but learned a little.
The entire point is to allow people to make mistakes and learn from them. Putting handrails on everything for the sake of preventing your feelings from being hurt does nothing but water down the game as a whole.
Enitzu said:Feyshtey said:
And what avenue is employed for grievences?
If there was no complaint made to the developer, it's on you.
There is no way to complain when it was stated before the server launched that devs/gm's would not handle disputes in these cases. They do not have the manpower to cover all of the grievances caused by players. It would be a full time job for 20-30 people easily to handle these things and sort through right and wrong. Needs to be something in place to stop alot of the non sense without involving GMs every couple hours
Riply said:
I can understand how that could be annoying, but really what your explaining is not the same thing as kill stealing, or issue with tagging. When it comes to people farming epic quest items to sell, well I'm not completely sure how I feel about that. It happened in EQ but it's just part of the farming, selling, so I can buy my stuff economy, dunno if I feel it's right or wrong.
The current design philosophies and publicly demonstrated mechanics (from the videos), in Pantheon, permit all of these "bad things" to continue unabated.
Riply said:Eh no, I actually played on heavily populated servers. I never said it did not happen, but it sure didn't happen constantly like you are trying to imply.
See part of the fundamental problem with this conversation is what you precieve as being bad is something many of us have enjoyed over the years. From your post you basically are saying you hated how contested world bosses were. Personally I thought competing and even racing other guilds to a boss was actually alot of fun back in the day. And before you say it, my guild was one of the top 3 on the server, but we were also known as the guild that wouldn't do dirty things to others to get what we wanted, so yes we lost the race alot, but when we won it was great.
Don't get me wrong I loved racing other guilds. I enjoyed that it added another level of difficulty. What I didn't enjoy was when we won those races, 9 times out of 10 we had to deal with constant trains to the point that we ran with 10 enchanters and 6-7 tanks in raid to try to control them. That's just how it was on my server. That isn't fun nor is it exciting. It's childish bs. Hell I can't even remember how many times we saved a kill with a ranger kiting a boss while clerics rezzed people for 5-10 minutes.
It simply isn't good gameplay and if we are trying to attract more than the ~1k people that maybe interested in that cutt throatness type of gameplay then this has to change. In dungeons and what not, this will be a rare occurance. But for raid mobs on a spawn timer, this will be a prevelant issue. I mean we are talking about things that happened 20 years ago, this was a time when the community had respect for each other. Now, no one gives a **** about the person next to them. So it will be even worse than it was then.
This is a complicated topic, and one that hopefully they can tweak after alpha feedback.
Personally, I will be playing on the PvP server, so kill stealing isn't going to really be an issue when you can simply attack the person(s) trying to steal your mob.
However, I do feel that the EQ1 dps race system was fair.
I do not like games that lock mobs to groups. That in my opinion can create much worse griefing scenarios than the dps race situation. With locked mobs, you open up small groups to being able to steal from big groups. For instance, a big raid clears to a boss, but before they can engage a group of 3 players walks up and tags the boss and either: