Do any games have a Voting Poll at login? Not one that Players could create polls in (good lord could you imagine the abuse?) but one that the Developers could Poll the players on. Where they could ask questions about Game effects, class ability's, etc. and get a clearer picture of the overall consensus of ALL players instead of just the vocal minority that get on the Forums. I'm not speaking specifically about Pantheon (it's not released yet) I haven't played as many games as many of you here have, but I have never seen one with a Poll.
If not, why not?
Absolutely, we can insert a poll wherever we like ;)
And to get the best responses, implementing them at login or character select is prime real estate and something that we have already considered among many other options, not everyone visits the official forums but it is where our most loyal supports come, so it can be a double-edged sword, asks the unlimited random masses at login or the dedicated veterans who support the game whole heartedly on the official forums...I suppose it depends what we are asking but it is certainly something I think about a lot :)
I... think EQ1 may have done this, to a certain extent.
I vaguely remember logging in and when you were at the world select menu, a window would open asking you a question about your experience with the game. I only remember it a small handful of times and I don't recall any of the questions specifically, but I could've sworn that blay/grey border window popping up asking a survey-esque question now and then.
Thanks for the responces
A poll can be inserted of course (I could even code that) but I'm curious why I have never seen it implemented in games that are already released, never seen it in EQ1 or 2 or WoW, never had the opportunity to play VG, never found another that could hold my attention GW2, NW, Wildstar. But never have a seen a simple one question poll at log in to get the feel of what the Players wanted from the game.
Now I'm not sure I agree with your statement "the official forums but it is where our most loyal supports come" I'm concerned on how you define "loyal". In EQ I was as Loyal as they get, I was one of those that Lived in Norrath, I was a Guild Leader, Raid Leader, and I even jeopardized my employment for lack of sleep and all kinds of bad over indulging things, But NEVER did I get on the Forums (except when the game was down I would read the forums instead of being in chat threatening the Dev's that I would SUE if they didn't get the game back up) . I didn't like forums, I didn't like reading countless messages and excuse me for being less than PC here (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I see very little if any here) but I found the forums to be flooded with a bunch of whiners that all wanted the game easier. I preferred to spend my time playing the game, I didn't want to engage in arguments with these others, so my voice wasn't heard (my mistake, I own that, it's why I'm hear today) but I don't think that made me less loyal, just made me less vocal, and one that didn't like forums.
I know of one reason Not to have Polls... Sony did a poll in the early making of Everquest Next where they asked about "Starting Cities YES NO", the results came back with an overwhelming 90+% YES That was NOT what the Devs wanted to hear (EQNext was not going to have starting cities), and it was the last poll I remember them taking.
I'm glad to hear VR is considering something of the sort. Kilsin you responded to my question in another thread about "100 Forum users being the voice for 10,000 players", so I know your familiar with what I'm getting at. I think when implemented It would need to only allow one vote per account, it would need to be small, and not to intrusive (one click), I would think it need to be forced to get a response from EVERY active player (must respond before you can move into the game) even the ones that didn't care (YES, NO, Don't Care) So questions like
"Should players need Ammo?" (YES) (NO) (Does not apply to me)
"Should Bag space be increased" (YES) (NO) (Don't care)
VR obviously has the final say on any game design decision, as it should be! But this would allow VR the most accurate cross sample of the feelings of the true "Loyal" (paying subscription) players, and not just the ones that like to, and/or have time to, be on forums.
I'm still curious why it's not common place in MMO's. EQ1 may have had it Senthin... thats a long time ago and I often even forget my grandkids names these days!
Seems silly to ask a poll question where you only want one answer. Like.. Really silly. Best case scenario, people choose the answer you are willing to accept, that doesn't seem to balance out the worst case scenario. For the sake of my sanity, Zorkon, I'm going to choose to believe they had different intentions at the time of asking the poll question, because otherwise I will just get upset at knowing this, lol.
I would like to make 2 points here:
1. Forum Population vs PLayer populatio:
Data from EQ1 onwards has shown that the forums attracted about 6% of the userbase. I would hazard a guess that it is probably well below that threshold these days. Don't get tied up in the 'pre-release' usage of the forums (since nobody has access to the game and so the forums are the 'next best thing') or the 'first months of launch' when the multitudes are hunting for information about the realm, classes, quests or even just to solve a graphics/login issue. Very early and Post launch month(s) the number will settle downwards to well under 6%.
However, as the days of EQ1 will tell you - this is not to say that 'synchronized whining' was not a real thing. There were cases of particularly vocal portions of the player base using this to their advantage (getting some classes nerfed to maintain their preferred classes 'status' - looking at you Druids hehe). By and large, SOE were aware they were feeding the trolls, but their alternatives were limited.
2. Statisticians and Pollsters construct questions very carefully indeed:
In computing parlance, this amounts to the GIGO principle. If the question is flawed, then so too will the answer be. It is extremely difficult to craft a question to get a worthwhile answer if it is too blunt or merely offers complete opposites as the options.
A 'better' versions of the above questions would be:
How do you feel about your ammo usage when playing?
(a) I find I run out of ammo nearly all the time and have to stop to re-supply a lot
(b) I find I often run out of ammo: not always, butmore often than not
(c) I sometimes run out of ammo
(d) It is rare I run out of ammo before finding a resupply point
(e) I never never have to stop play because I ran out of ammo
(f) I don't often play a class with ammo
The above would at least give the developers a 'feel' for the PERCEIVED usage of ammo without having to ask specifically about ammo storage space. We can assume the developers have an idea as to whether they want to use ammo or not - this is a big questions and not something a straw poll could give an answer to. If you REALLY must ask about ammo or no ammo, try the following:
Which best describes how you feel about ammo:
(a) I hate having to carry ammo, it is a serious negative
(b) I don't mind ammo, but i'd prefer not to have it
(c) Ammo doesn't really matter to me one way or the other
(d) I don't mind ammo and sometimes find it useful
(e) I enjoy the way ammo adds to game-play and gives me more options
Please, for all the Gods' sakes, don't use these examples above that I pulled out of my backside head as 'good' poll questions. But, hopefully, they might give you an idea about how you might fram a question to get an answer that help YOU figure out whether you want to follow a particular line or not. That is, after all, the whole point.
I would strongly suggest using a Forum Poll and a public poll (at login) and using these two to temper each other. If it is a 'game mechanic' question then weight in favour of the forums, if it is a 'perception' or 'quality of feel' question then weight the public more.
BEST : is not to ask :)
I know it's a MOBA, but Heroes of the Storm does this periodically at the end of matches. A quick one-question poll where you answer on a scale of 1-5 stars. (Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent) Literally takes two seconds to reply.
Questions like:
"Please Rate Your Connection Quality"
"Please Rate the Hero you Played"
"Please Rate the Battleground you Played"
"Please Rate the Cooperation of your Teammates"
I do also vaguely remember EQ1 doing something similar. I imagine this sort of thing provides valuable information to the developers as to what they should focus on in the future. I think the more the devs listen to the players, the better!
Zorkon said:Do any games have a Voting Poll at login? Not one that Players could create polls in (good lord could you imagine the abuse?) but one that the Developers could Poll the players on. Where they could ask questions about Game effects, class ability's, etc. and get a clearer picture of the overall consensus of ALL players instead of just the vocal minority that get on the Forums. I'm not speaking specifically about Pantheon (it's not released yet) I haven't played as many games as many of you here have, but I have never seen one with a Poll.
If not, why not?
As a developer I think it's a fine line. You have to make the game you want to make and follow the vision. When you start polling players you may get responses to change things but that doesn't mean the changes are for the better.
bigdogchris said:Zorkon said:Do any games have a Voting Poll at login? Not one that Players could create polls in (good lord could you imagine the abuse?) but one that the Developers could Poll the players on. Where they could ask questions about Game effects, class ability's, etc. and get a clearer picture of the overall consensus of ALL players instead of just the vocal minority that get on the Forums. I'm not speaking specifically about Pantheon (it's not released yet) I haven't played as many games as many of you here have, but I have never seen one with a Poll.
If not, why not?As a developer I think it's a fine line. You have to make the game you want to make and follow the vision. When you start polling players you may get responses to change things but that doesn't mean the changes are for the better.
I agree.
Which is why the questions would have to be carefully written. They should focus more on quality-of-life things rather than the complete direction of the game. Unless the devs spend a significant time actually playing the game with their own characters just like everyone else, they will probably have a hard time fully understanding what the game experience is like and therefore some pretty significant issues might go unnoticed. Not to mention the fact that they've seen the game from beginning-to-end/inside-and-out, and will therefore have a very different perspective as someone who is just starting out. They need to have a way to be open to those perspectives. And ultimately, even if people are calling for something to change that doesn't fit with what the devs think is best for the game overall, then they just won't change it! That's their perogative. Yes, that does kinda put them in a tough spot sometimes. But it doesn't hurt to at least ask. Psychologically speaking, even if you don't actually make any change, just the fact that the people feel that their opinion has been heard is often enough to satisfy them.
Bazgrim said:bigdogchris said:Zorkon said:Do any games have a Voting Poll at login? Not one that Players could create polls in (good lord could you imagine the abuse?) but one that the Developers could Poll the players on. Where they could ask questions about Game effects, class ability's, etc. and get a clearer picture of the overall consensus of ALL players instead of just the vocal minority that get on the Forums. I'm not speaking specifically about Pantheon (it's not released yet) I haven't played as many games as many of you here have, but I have never seen one with a Poll.
If not, why not?As a developer I think it's a fine line. You have to make the game you want to make and follow the vision. When you start polling players you may get responses to change things but that doesn't mean the changes are for the better.
I agree.
Which is why the questions would have to be carefully written. They should focus more on quality-of-life things rather than the complete direction of the game. Unless the devs spend a significant time actually playing the game with their own characters just like everyone else, they will probably have a hard time fully understanding what the game experience is like and therefore some pretty significant issues might go unnoticed. Not to mention the fact that they've seen the game from beginning-to-end/inside-and-out, and will therefore have a very different perspective as someone who is just starting out. They need to have a way to be open to those perspectives. And ultimately, even if people are calling for something to change that doesn't fit with what the devs think is best for the game overall, then they just won't change it! That's their perogative. Yes, that does kinda put them in a tough spot sometimes. But it doesn't hurt to at least ask. Psychologically speaking, even if you don't actually make any change, just the fact that the people feel that their opinion has been heard is often enough to satisfy them.
Well said, and I mostly agree, except for the last part. I would rather the dev team tell us why they are not changing something rather than make me feel like I had a shot at getting it changed.
Anistosoles said:Bazgrim said:bigdogchris said:Zorkon said:Do any games have a Voting Poll at login? Not one that Players could create polls in (good lord could you imagine the abuse?) but one that the Developers could Poll the players on. Where they could ask questions about Game effects, class ability's, etc. and get a clearer picture of the overall consensus of ALL players instead of just the vocal minority that get on the Forums. I'm not speaking specifically about Pantheon (it's not released yet) I haven't played as many games as many of you here have, but I have never seen one with a Poll.
If not, why not?As a developer I think it's a fine line. You have to make the game you want to make and follow the vision. When you start polling players you may get responses to change things but that doesn't mean the changes are for the better.
I agree.
Which is why the questions would have to be carefully written. They should focus more on quality-of-life things rather than the complete direction of the game. Unless the devs spend a significant time actually playing the game with their own characters just like everyone else, they will probably have a hard time fully understanding what the game experience is like and therefore some pretty significant issues might go unnoticed. Not to mention the fact that they've seen the game from beginning-to-end/inside-and-out, and will therefore have a very different perspective as someone who is just starting out. They need to have a way to be open to those perspectives. And ultimately, even if people are calling for something to change that doesn't fit with what the devs think is best for the game overall, then they just won't change it! That's their perogative. Yes, that does kinda put them in a tough spot sometimes. But it doesn't hurt to at least ask. Psychologically speaking, even if you don't actually make any change, just the fact that the people feel that their opinion has been heard is often enough to satisfy them.
Well said, and I mostly agree, except for the last part. I would rather the dev team tell us why they are not changing something rather than make me feel like I had a shot at getting it changed.
Yes that would be even better for a lot of people.
I like the notion of having polls at login for gathering some types of information. The examples Bazrim gave of connection quality, battleground experience, etc, are good.
However, there's a downside if this kind of thing is not used wisely. I'd hate to see VR get in the mindset that because they can, and because they have used polls somewhat regularly they feel compelled to come up with polls to keep the trend going.
Imagine a poll 2 years into the game's life asking "Rate on a scale of 1 to 5 your desire for an in-game cash shop". Everyone would assume it was something that VR were either considering, or were going to impliment and were merely deciding on scale. Half the community would throw a party and the other half would go apoplectic, even if VR had no intention of actually doing it and were just collecting info or "creating discussion"
Another factor if not used wisely is that most people would respond in their own interest without regard to the long-term health and stability of the game. Imagine questions like, "Should root last longer?", or "Should mobs drop more vendor loot?", or "Is the Master Arcanist epic fight too difficult?". These types of questions might generate a strong impression that the players really want a particular thing but could be catastrophic to the long-term viability of the economy or trivializing content. Sure, players want the thing, but they mostly arent educated enough to understand and appreciate the ramifications. I'd really hate to see VR pressured into the short-term appeasement of customers based on overwhelming data that suggests they want a thing, and it'd be even worse if the players were given the results and were able to constanatly point to it saying, "See !!! VR isnt listening to us!!! 87% of the players think we shouldn't have to visit trainers anymore!!!".
Login Polling: Great idea
Forum Polling: Great idea
Polling both: Better idea
I agree with others that say VR should poll both places. Other than observing the polling results themselves, there are other benefits to this method. Over time, this will give VR a firm understanding of how the vocal forum community differs from the playerbase as a whole, and will help them accurately weight feedback and comments they see on the forums. Polling both login and forums with the same polls at the same time will also provide valuable metadata. History has shown that a small, but very active and vocal, minority on forums can influence game design -- sometimes at odds with the silent (and often content) majority of subscribers. Not to equate game design with democracy, but this is valuable information for VR that can help with future game decisions if their goal is to alienate as few players as possible.
Imagine if this kind of polling was conducted prior to NGE for SWG? I bet the decision to release that patch would have been very different.