In my experience most expansions are large, extremely announced and awaited content added to the game. Most information is already known about what to look for in the expansion before it actually arrives and in some cases maps are already given providing almost no surprise to the upcoming addition to the game.
I say Booooo !!! to all of this.
Yes, I understand that players need to know that an expansion is coming and yes, an expansion drives popularity and income for a gaming co. which is needed for the survival of a company.
However, wouldn't it be cool for content to be a surprise? Sure you know there is an expansion because it was announced and you receive a huge download, but what if that was all you knew?
Perhaps you were studying hints in lore that spoke of a continent far to the south, or your perception triggered an event that led you to believe that there was a lost civilization cast away upon an Island deep in the western sea. You have to actually go out and discover these places. Maybe you have to unlock a sequence of scenerios to open a new dungeon lodged deep in a dungeon you have already out-leveled bringing life once again to a forgotten portion of the realm you already have explored.
I guess what I am getting at is: I would enjoy the surprise of discovering everything about the new content of an expansion. I don't want any spoilers given to me unless they are something that I have uncovered already within the content that I currently have.
What do you think? Surprise or not?
It won't be a surprise. It only goes as far as getting a "please wait while a patch is being downloaded" surprise when you finally found couple hours when you can play peacefully without being disturbed. :) Even if you make it a background process (i.e. you can still play existing content while addition is being downloaded/installed) many (if not most) people would still notice unusual traffic/hard drive load.
I think Klum's point is less "don't announce the existence of expansion content" and more "don't tell us what's in the unexplored new areas before it even releases". Obviously, as you both stated, it would be nearly impossible to pull off a complete surprise expansion, nevermind how cool that could potentially be.
As far as content secrecy goes, I'm all for it. I would love to see something along these lines:
You're traversing through a heavily forested area that you've trekked across a thousand times before and, ahead, behind a thick growth of vines, you notice a cave mouth in the side of a cliff that's gone unseen in previous ventures in this same area, and a plethora of fresh humanoid tracks coming and going from it. What could possibly be inside?
Realistic for an uninstanced world? Probably not, but reading other people's spit-balling is half the fun here.
There is a balance to be had, but this can work to their advantage is done right.
Announcing Myr Legions XPAC. (£15 / 140 Euros / $20 USD, $20,000 AUD)
Underwater tremors have caused havoc on the seabed. Fishermen in the southern archipelago have announced catching new species of fish. They have 3 eyes.
WILL YOU hunt for the source of these new and disturbing events?
WILL YOU be the first to kiss get eaten by a mermaid?
WILL YOU brave the dark depths?
--------------------------------
* NEW zones 'Coral Beach' (Lev 11-25), 'Venice Beach' (Lev 21-40) and Bondi Beach (Lev 31-50) lead to 'Neptunes Armpit' (Level 45-60)
* NEW Armour styles ('Dead Duck Plate', 'Myr Chain Bikini')
* NEW Crafting Recipes ('Myr Finger Food' contains 100% Myr fingers, 'Kelp Surprise' well, surprise! it is inedible, '5 Prong Trident' for when 3 prongs is just not enough)
There are ways to announce, whet appetites, but not give away all the details.
lol @ aud pricing Evoras - I feel the pain... everytime!
I like the ideas being presented in this thread so far - we need to know that new content is coming, but it needs to be packaged smartly and without giviing away too much.
I've seen too many sites that data mine patch content / have videos that tell you how best to prepare for a patch & list a clear path through the 'new' content that allows min/maxing. I think this is detrimental to the sense of adventure and exploration that Pantheon is going for.
I'm not sure there is any point in keeping secrets after an update release. It will only be a secret for a few hours tops.
I've been playing Grim Dawn recently and they released an update couple months ago that added a "hidden path". Of course it was for players to discover what it actually was and how to get there. All cool and all, but it was pretty painful when I stumbled across a hidden door that wouldn't open while I sensed there was something cool behind it. And it didn't open just because the (also hidden) opening was placed almost at the very beginning of a playthrough, which I didn't know at the time. ...Anyway, where I was leading: full map of all related areas was googlable the very next day. In a single-player game. Imagine the speed of news in a MMO when there can't be a COMPLETELY deserted area of the world.
I just fail to see enough value in a brief secret to compensate for efforts to keep it secret.
I like the idea of new content being a suprise. I also get that in todays world of data mining and Google the secret would be short lived. There are people who want the suprise and those who want to know as much as they can. The simple solution is, if you want to be suprised, don't go and google the new content or hit up Zam (or whatever the latest greatest site for data mines is), becuase as has been mentioned to actually keep the new content truely secret would be diffecult.
Interesting idea. Not sure if it would work or not, as I imagine expansion information is used to tease new players and players on the fence about staying another month. I mean, look at the recent addition to 'the game that shall not be named' that had so much hype due to the beta and all the streamers/media basically seeing the majority of the games upcoming changes. A lot of positive hype/attention by simply letting people see what you are about to release to the masses.
Granted, that can be a double edged sword. If your changes aren't well received, you just did more damage to your image. But I think the fact that an MMO needs tested on a "massive" scale means that the PTR is a necessity, and thus media/streamers will have the majority of the info well before release.
Just the nature of the beast. :)
I like the idea and it could work. The devs could do two different types of content expansions. They could do the big expansions where people pay for them and the devs tell everyone about them. And they could do smaller content updates that are thrown in with the scheduled maintenance updates and/or bugfix updates and throw in content with those and just not tell anybody that they are doing it. The devs wouldn't even have to say anything to let people know the 'secret' content was added, because as long as you pay attention to the regular scheduled updates you should be able to tell a bigger patch from a regular shceduled maintenance patch or a bugfix patch. This could be the tellsign that content was added and then players could journey the lands in search of this new content.
Problem is that new content is generally released on test servers before being released to the "general public". However these test servers are used by the "general public" who want to see the latest content first (regardless of whether it works or not) and they get all the low down on the new content, they get their notes prepared and put the details out a very short time after the content is released. I cant see how content can be kept underwraps when that content is tested by players.
Personally, I would love to see new content released with little information and allow everyone to explore in the manner the developers really want. I would love to see some lore released prior to the expansion but details about the content are not available. Then you could have parts of the expansion opened up when game events are triggered by players or at pre-determined time periods or both.
But I honestly dont know how content could be kept secret when the content is tested by anyone is able to create a test account.
This is such a great suggestion, thank you! I can see it now... announcing an expansion is coming... maybe dribble out a few disjointed lore tidbits to get us pondering... but leaving the who/what/where/why to the players to discover when they log in. The details of the content, including the main theme of the expansion, should be kept completely secret until the patch drops. Imagine the sense of excitement and discovery!
Mind you, this would still leave room for open discussion about technical changes with the expansion such as changing mechanics, tweaks to game systems, etc.
1. Maybe one way to keep it a secret is to have the game do a very slow patch in the background (DoT patch = Download over time)
2. or also could have the installer secretly download a small amount of the patch every day for a week or month?
I thought of a few more ways:
3. only have the patcher download new (triggers) on a map that when you walk over a trigger it would download a new area near you
4. if you loot or pick up an item it would either flag you for a download or download a new area for you somewhere in the world, the item would have some sort of lore attached to it to help you find the new place
Expacks are great but the usual method is sourly out of date and frankly sucks. It used to be a level of excitement and awe when they came out. Now you have information handed out to a few and it gets out and the spammed over every Blog and gaming site out there. Serious Spoiler alert there. It’s a failed concept that needs to be corrected.
Living content like GW2 was an interesting concept at first but that turned into a zerg mindset with getting through it as fast as people could. Kind of ruined it but something like that could work if done differently.
Quest and server based activity growth or trip content might be interesting to try. Quest chains or group/regional in game activity could trigger new content. With the new AI practices this is a something that can be done.
Full blown expansions are something that has been really messy of late. Don’t get me wrong on getting new experiences and adventures but the deployment method really hurts gaming communities. I will Use WoW for an example. IF you spend enormous amounts of time to get gear or achievements and anew expack rolls out it pretty much is a waste of time for people to continue on current content and or raiding. It’s sort of a forced mentality. This is not good at all. I left due to this. I know there were many disenfranchised by this deployment type. A more balanced approach is sourly needed.
I love new content but the current versions of how it is done needs some serious help.
Ox steps of his feeding box.
OX
I think that the problem with expansions is that they tend to ignore old content and new stuff is shiny and alluring.
It’s generally "here is a new continent, lots of new stuff to use, new mobs to clobber, go, conquer it. It basically gives you a starting place in the new zone and off you go and everyone leaves current zones (if at all possible). It is a natural thing for us humans though:
“ooo.. what’s that over there? Let’s go and find out” and long may it continue.
But it doesn’t have to be the case that a huge new zone is dumped on everyone’s doorstep and existing content is irrelevant. Why not open it slowly, having events in current zone coincide with things happening in the new zone. To get the most out of the old zone, introduce new things (which have something to do with the new content) in the existing zones.
For instance, a new zone introduces an island a long way off that hasn’t been charted because of myths and the fact that few people make it back, but the ones that do make it, all come back with a similar story, an invasion force is being mounted. So much for the lore, now to the release. Attacks all along the cost zones of the existing zones require everyone’s help to turn back. Eventually, you find some documents and decide to take them to the librarian (as you cannot read it - foriegn language and all that), the quest continues and leads to you informing the captain of the guard what you have found out. You are then given a quest to spy out something in the new lands...
So up to this point, everything is happening in the existing zones but there is new content here so it feels part of the expansion too (which it is!). So in this example, lots can happen in current zone under the threat of raids and such like. The quest then gives you the means to get to the new zone and see new land. But the story is all about protecting your homeland, so you are encouraged to return and do everything you can to stop the invasion, both at home and in the new land. Each time your return, the situation could worsen, giving you incentive to complete your missions.
Anyway, you get the idea. This is just one way to make existing content relevant. Mix the new content with existing content in interesting ways. Dont just dump a whole new area without thought to what it does to the existing world. I think this type of expansion would go a long way with stopping mass exodus every time a new area is opened up. Maybe.
Retsof said:Standard expansion packs for successful games are usually provided at a cost to the consumer. Most consumers want to know what they are getting for their money. They/we will ask, "Is this expansion worth X dollars?"
Exactly this...I prefer to know what I am buying. Perhaps some elements can be a surprise (bonuses...secret treasure/caves points of interests that you discover while exploring the new content) but we do have to know the main purpose...lore story, raison d'etre, going into the new expansion...otherwise it will be difficult to sell to consumers that like or have to watch their expenses. Also as far as the "old" areas go...can always inject new content into the old areas...for people to discover.
Cana
I kind of feel that the cruicial missing element is
'levelling slow enough that few/nobody hits max before we can do an expansion'.
Expansion packs always feel like they are driven by necessity. Rushed and poorly tested. If the levelling model is slow enough that nobody 'runs out of stuff to do' long before the expack is due, then perhaps this may take the pressure of the release and subsequest feeding frenzy. To balance this (not having everyone at max level waiting to rush into the new content) the expack could be (predominantly) a reworking of older zones, adding more mid-level content with more horizontal depth and new skills etc that reinforce the 'fun while slowly levelling' mode of play.
Pipe-dream perhaps...
... but then it took me almost a year to get to level 20 the 1st time round!
I see many comments to the effect that expansions should not make old content obsolete. I couldn't agree more. I almost hate expansions in some games because everything I was working for suddenly becomes worthless, and everyone rushes toward the new content just to keep up.
I'm thinking expansion should be more about new exploration rather than new gear and/or levels to attain to. I would far more enjoy a new world opening up to discover or some ancient, lost, underground city to unearth.
I really liked Evoras idea about receiving a new expansion before we have actually out-leveled the current game that we are playing in. The new content would then sort of meld into what we already have keeping immersion intact. I enjoy a slower paced game which allows me to thoroughly enjoy all the current content before I am forced into new content just becuase it has arrived. If content was added before everyone had actually reached the point to need it, the game would simply continue along its natural course.
Probably easier said then done, but the idea is a sound one I think.
Something does need to change in the way expansions are being done currently in the genre. Someone with new ideas and the scratch to become the next trend-setter needs to step up to the plate and make the change.