Choice is always good. I feel gear sets are handy at mid levels (something to work toward / grow into / class visualizing - 'hey there goes a blueberry, must be a bard!') but as we age I prefer to make my own stunning good looks shine from the best drops available. Class armor, racial armor, faction armor, drops...it is all good, more choice never less.
While I wouldn't enjoy seeing a bunch of red, purple, and green clowns running around Terminus 24/7 (Bards are okay, they have to wear their Gleeman's cloak after all...) I would be okay with both, I'm curious what direction VR will take regarding gear and outward appearance.
A lot of the newer mmo's are useing cosmetics to hide the ugly mix of armors that people are forced to wear for thier armor rateing. Although it seems to work it also seems like a waste to me. Even though your character may look the same from level 1 to level 50 it sems to take the feeling of advancing in ac away. I personaly like the change in armor stayles and appearance. I would like to see armor as it should be. If you need the armor rateing then let it show. I have played most mmo's since eq1 was launched and yet to see a real eysore of mismashed armor that really troubled my eyes.
As far as armor sets being obsolete with expansions maybe the devs can add in some crafting abilities to make the armor upgradeable after expansions take effect. You would need to recover the added abilities from drops so a cratfter could add them to the current armor. Make them hard to get just like a new set is and make the crafting ability a master ability useable by the highest level crafters. I do not mean slots in the armor but an additional ingredient that the craftsman will use while reconstructing the armor piece so there may be a small chance of failure. That way you still have a degree of chance that the armor may poof and you need to get a new piece altogether.
Obliquity said:Would you like Pantheon to have armor sets for each class ?
The Good: All your gear would match.
The Bad: Players wouldnt be unique in their appearance.
The Ugly: Without sets players would look mismatched.
I like how you leap to conclusions with nothing at all to support your supposition. Why must 'non-sets' automatically equate to 'mis-matched'? Who are you to say that with the right choice of armor types based upon slot could not produce a quite well ordered and visually appealing set of armor?
The correct question should be "Should the look of your armor be affected by your race?" Look back through EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard and others and see how A_Breastplate_01, wearable by all races, auto-magically changes its look based upon race. Design a BP in a certain style with whatever details and design elements desired and then let that style remain regardless of the race wearing it. That way people will know that the ornate BP you're sporting could only have come from one boss.
Not particularly fond of 'sets'...
... By end-game all players start to look very very very 'samey'.
1. No reason why individual pieces should look particularly 'patchwork'.
2. Items should have a certain look, irrespective of who wear it. They are what they are. If an elf wears human-made armour it should not 'magically alter', It was, after all, made for a particular human style. There should, indeed, be a few different human styles (or for any race).
3. There is no reason why there should not be a small 'bonus' for wearing 'all full plate', or 'all banded armour' ... but these should be for the synergy of wearing a 'collection' of all the same function-type armour, since they are designed to work the same way. But not such a large bonus that it means 'never wear a mixed set' as the loss of the synergy bonus would gimp you. Find super greaves.... then wear them!
4. Allow dying (or tinting) within reason. Or even enamelling / inlaying. Have it cost a bunch of money and need to be learened (dropped / taught)
PS If a human wizzy wants to wear the latest in Myr clothing fashions ... why not? Please don't have it magically alter to look human!
I'm fine with there being some armor sets in game but, like Maximis, I don't think they should be the 'be all, end all' of armor acquisition. I really enjoyed working on the Ivy-Etched armor set for my ranger in EQ. They were fun little quests that yeilded decent armor that could carry you pretty far before you had to replace them. I also wouldn't mind seeing crafted armor at all ends of the spectrum, which would essentially make for sets if people chose to go all that route.
Evoras said:Not particularly fond of 'sets'...
... By end-game all players start to look very very very 'samey'.
1. No reason why individual pieces should look particularly 'patchwork'.
2. Items should have a certain look, irrespective of who wear it. They are what they are. If an elf wears human-made armour it should not 'magically alter', It was, after all, made for a particular human style. There should, indeed, be a few different human styles (or for any race).
3. There is no reason why there should not be a small 'bonus' for wearing 'all full plate', or 'all banded armour' ... but these should be for the synergy of wearing a 'collection' of all the same function-type armour, since they are designed to work the same way. But not such a large bonus that it means 'never wear a mixed set' as the loss of the synergy bonus would gimp you. Find super greaves.... then wear them!
4. Allow dying (or tinting) within reason. Or even enamelling / inlaying. Have it cost a bunch of money and need to be learened (dropped / taught)
PS If a human wizzy wants to wear the latest in Myr clothing fashions ... why not? Please don't have it magically alter to look human!
I'm with Evoras on this one. The only thing I might add is perhaps a crafted skin that we could place over a suit of armor. Maybe we like the stats, we just want a diff. look to the set. A crafted look could be an alternative to be purchased or learned.
And I agree whole-heartedly, If a human wants a set of Myr fashions, then he should look like a man or woman wearing a set of Myr style armor. It should not alter.
I'm not for sets that are 'complete' (every slot is utilized by set pieces).
Instead I think sets should be 3-4 pieces per set and the rest left for individuation or a combination of different sets.
Really would like to stay clear of the the aforementioned "Ken and Barbie" look if at all possible.
Klumpedge said:... The only thing I might add is perhaps a crafted skin that we could place over a suit of armor. ...
My 'novel idea / method' was to have crafters build armour using two main components. These are :
1. Armour type / piece
2. Style / Pattern
3. (optional special)
1. Armour Type / Pieces
This means, you need to learn how to make the pieces you want, eg : 'plate chest', 'Chain legs' etc. These will be taught by your crafting master in the first instance.This is done on a piece by piece basis.
2. Style / Pattern:
The master will only teach a style he knows. If he is human, it is most likely the master will only be able to teach you mainly 'human' style (or it could be a specific human style 'renaissance', 'pre-war', 'post-3rd-Age' etc). Note that a style would typically cover a number of pieces, up to all. Some styles may only be relevant to fewer, some to more.
There should be 3 ways to learn a style:
(a) Find a Smith who knows it (that is happy to teach you) and you can learn Eg 'Myr chain styles'.
Most likely to be a Myr Smith ... but others probably know the more commonplace styles.
(b) Wander the dungeons around the Myr kingdom might find you a tome 'Methods of the Myr Chain Smiths'
NB: It is gonna be written in (80% chance) Myr or (20%) another language.
(c) Reasearch the style by deconstructing 'Myr Chain' pieces.
Do this until your 'learning' reaches 100%, then
Practice making a few pieces until you 'get it'.
3. Optional Extras
These 'extras' I saw as 'refinements' that smiths could learn to be more individual. They cold be apoplkied to any piece of armour - some being more approproate than others in certain situation. A suit of plate for fighting giants may need to be massively overengineered to avoid breaking, while a suit of plate for fighting Myr might need to be highly mobile to allow fighting effectively underwater. They might include:
(a) Lightness : pieces are 5-25% lighter at a cost of some loss of effectiveness
(b) Heavy : pieces are overengineered, 20-50% heavier at gain to some defensive stats, say.
(c) Mobile : reduced coverage for better movement (less penalty)
(d) Defensive : reduced mobility for better 'vitals' coverage
(e) Resistant: padded to resist the elements at a cost of extra weight (padding) and lower mobility.
The idea here is to have system where players will have an assortment of styles and looks. Should you want a specific look, find a crafter who knows that style. If you are a human wanting a Myr Chainmail breastplate... find a crafter who can do chain BPs and knows the Myr style you want. If not, he has to get hold of a bunch of old pieces and deconstruct them to research the style.... or go look for somebody to teach him .... or go down some dungeons and hope to find a tome of knowledge ... and be able to read it. .... or have it translated.
It also allows for new styles to be introduced as/when they want. A 'new' fad comes out of the human realm, an 'ancient' style is discovered in a half-buried library beneath a fortress etc. Even new options could be added, or variations on them. Some may be harder to make - larger chance of failure etc.
We do NOT have to look cookie-cutter just for the sake of min/maxing!
I like your idea Evoaras. It has been discussed in other threads different ways to use crafters, such as a dropped peice of gear not being usable until a crafter "fixes it for use". This idea could be expanded to allow customization such as you suggested. It would be along the lines of VG crafting where we learned the 3 continental crafting styles taken a step further. Great ideas :)
I would like to say there should be 5 points of color on each armor piece and that each point can be individually changed via the use of armor dye. This can make for some awesome looking armor. However this can also make for some UGLY armor too. Maybe included some shader restrictions etc. on certain pieces...
Vandraad said:I like how you leap to conclusions with nothing at all to support your supposition. Why must 'non-sets' automatically equate to 'mis-matched'? Who are you to say that with the right choice of armor types based upon slot could not produce a quite well ordered and visually appealing set of armor?The correct question should be "Should the look of your armor be affected by your race?" Look back through EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard and others and see how A_Breastplate_01, wearable by all races, auto-magically changes its look based upon race. Design a BP in a certain style with whatever details and design elements desired and then let that style remain regardless of the race wearing it. That way people will know that the ornate BP you're sporting could only have come from one boss.
My post was from playing EverQuest, you would get random drops that were upgrades and your character did look mismatched. Until armor dye and sets were added much later in that game.
I figured anyone that played EQ at all would know what I meant.
I was wrong...
All I have to say is my armor be it best in slot or not...needs to fulfill the stats I need for my caster or my tank or whomever. If its not "high class" so what if I need to rune or engrave my armor...have it done by a crafter. There's also the other factor "RMT" and that pretty much puts any armor that I might afford, out of reach. I REFUSE to play the RMT game. And in the end its all about status.. As a low level player I loved the small quest that gave you the patchwork armor, it gave you more surviveability. At that point I wasn't concerned about best in slot...my character was trying to survive. Hopefuly this game doesn't end up ALL ABOUT THE ENDGAME....
I knew EXACTLY what you meant, Obliq! lol
Until recently, I had a bard-look for sure due to just what you just said... random armor drops. I came back from a 6.5 year afk and made many new friends. Many taking me to zones I'd never seen before... helping me farm upgrades for my obviously outdated armor. Think.... rainbow lol LITERALLY rofl
Ironically, I now sport what I've been told is THE BEST BP in the game for a tank. WOOT! 2500 DKP
It has NO COLOR at all! Basic, default, white (silver?) heavy armor BP. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?! lol
I've used armor dyes in the past. Unless you can FULLY REMOVE them, I never want to use them again. In EQ, they can't be removed. Not really... all you can do is dye over them with a neutral color. I've BEGGED them to fix this with a potion or anything but to no avail. So... in truth, I still don't know what my armor looks like. I've been told I'm seeing it as it is but I'll never know. It's still dyed :(
I have always liked matching sets. I also like the skins you can put on armor. I'd honestly like a set that looks like REAL ARMOR. METAL ARMOR. Not colored. Possibly rusted in spots LOL
Not rusted! What kind of Paladin would I be if I allowed my armor to rust?!
I'm also hoping for great things in the Crafted Armor arena.
Realistic looking armor will be very fun I think, as well as immersive :)