How will VR address the different Race and Class balance? Will there be Rock, Paper, Scissors (RPS) mechanics to address how each class stacks up against another? I am really looking forward to seeing more info on the skills and attributes for each class and race before I make a decision on what to play. Cheers
I *assume* you are referring to the game of:
Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock ?
My guess would be yes. This is the model they use to 'balance' the various classes. The 'flavours' of rock etc will only be subjective ones. In other words they perform the same function, just that they do this in a variety of ways.
Eg (made up stuff) : Cleric (direct heals), Shaman (Heal over short time), Druid (patch heal + Regen)
PS: for the purposes of PvP I hope the PvE versions are *not* balanced!
Pantheon has said it will have a quaternity and will balance the classes around that - Tank/Healer/DPS/CC.
The following is pulled from the FAQ:
Q: Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?
A: Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels. That said, because we feel it’s important that classes fulfill distinct roles, creating interdependence is vital to a fulfilling social and cooperative experience. If everyone is the same, this simply cannot be achieved. Likewise, if every class is absolutely unique, grouping can become overly complicated and, in some cases, certain classes could be less desirable to have in a group than others. To avoid this, Pantheon will use a ‘quaternity’ system consisting of tank, healer, DPS, and crowd-control.
But, based on the numerous developer discussions on situational gear, I'd bet in additional to the traditional roles there will be more Fire Emblemesque or even FFesque where you will have weapon triangles (or Squares?) and elemental weaknesses to take into account as well.
I'm very interested to see the benefits of certain race/class/deity combinations. I played an agnostic barbarian warrior in early EQ, later I played an RZ ogre warrior, there were many differences, the largest of which for me was the frontal stun immunity that ogres had. Those advantages and disadvantages need to exist for immersion imo, smaller races logically should have less hitpoints than larger races.
I also liked the idea brought up in another thread about having racial/deity bonuses for casters. Based on the lore I would have zero problems with a Dark Myr caster having a small bonus of some sort on their enduring breath spell.
Evoras said:I *assume* you are referring to the game of:
Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock ?
My guess would be yes. This is the model they use to 'balance' the various classes. The 'flavours' of rock etc will only be subjective ones. In other words they perform the same function, just that they do this in a variety of ways.
Eg (made up stuff) : Cleric (direct heals), Shaman (Heal over short time), Druid (patch heal + Regen)
PS: for the purposes of PvP I hope the PvE versions are *not* balanced!
The whole rock, paper, scissors is actually a fundamental part of game theory. The goal, of course, is to have enough variety that things are not simplistic and easily broken down and obvious.
Evoras said:I *assume* you are referring to the game of:
Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock ?
My guess would be yes. This is the model they use to 'balance' the various classes. The 'flavours' of rock etc will only be subjective ones. In other words they perform the same function, just that they do this in a variety of ways.
Eg (made up stuff) : Cleric (direct heals), Shaman (Heal over short time), Druid (patch heal + Regen)
PS: for the purposes of PvP I hope the PvE versions are *not* balanced!
+1 to reference to Big Bang Theory. Good point about the PvE/PvP balance, it's pretty difficult to keep both camps happy.
Manouk said:(would someone explain "rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock to me? I think I get it intuitively but I would like a nerdy explanation. Yes I am familair with the lizard star- trek episode where kirk makes a rudimentary lathe gun if that has anything to do with it?)
That is from an episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon proposes a new version of the old classic, iirc.
If I recall correctly....
Scissors cuts Paper
Paper covers Rock
Rock crushes Lizard
Lizard poisons Spock
Spock smashes Scissors
Scissors decapitates Lizard
Lizard eats Paper
Paper disproves Spock
Spock vaporizes Rock
Rock crushes Scissors
It gives you a better ideea of how Game Theory meets modern class roles than the 'classic' when applied to MMO/RPG's in my view. They are more complex and inherently harder to balance well.
-Evoras, still cannot do a Vulcan death grip
Oxillion said:Not much information on that yet. Tons of speculation though. My assumption is the will have some balance but to what extent we have to wait for that. As for the rock, paper, scissors I prefer a battle axe. It usually ends the discussion…
Ox
Yeah, I had kind of hoped that a VR rep would chime in and throw out a teaser, but I have been around MMO's long enough to not get my hopes up.
Oldtimer said:Oxillion said:Not much information on that yet. Tons of speculation though. My assumption is the will have some balance but to what extent we have to wait for that. As for the rock, paper, scissors I prefer a battle axe. It usually ends the discussion…
Ox
Yeah, I had kind of hoped that a VR rep would chime in and throw out a teaser, but I have been around MMO's long enough to not get my hopes up.
You do know Aradune is Brad Mcquaid right? THE guy behind Pantheon? He posted a few post above yours, thought now that I look his name is Blue and not Offcial Green lol
Oldtimer said:Oxillion said:Not much information on that yet. Tons of speculation though. My assumption is the will have some balance but to what extent we have to wait for that. As for the rock, paper, scissors I prefer a battle axe. It usually ends the discussion…
Ox
Yeah, I had kind of hoped that a VR rep would chime in and throw out a teaser, but I have been around MMO's long enough to not get my hopes up.
They did.
Sevens said:Oldtimer said:Oxillion said:Not much information on that yet. Tons of speculation though. My assumption is the will have some balance but to what extent we have to wait for that. As for the rock, paper, scissors I prefer a battle axe. It usually ends the discussion…
Ox
Yeah, I had kind of hoped that a VR rep would chime in and throw out a teaser, but I have been around MMO's long enough to not get my hopes up.
You do know Aradune is Brad Mcquaid right? THE guy behind Pantheon? He posted a few post above yours, thought now that I look his name is Blue and not Offcial Green lol
No, I was not aware of that fact. Thanks for the heads up.
Oldtimer said:Sevens said:Oldtimer said:Oxillion said:Not much information on that yet. Tons of speculation though. My assumption is the will have some balance but to what extent we have to wait for that. As for the rock, paper, scissors I prefer a battle axe. It usually ends the discussion…
Ox
Yeah, I had kind of hoped that a VR rep would chime in and throw out a teaser, but I have been around MMO's long enough to not get my hopes up.
You do know Aradune is Brad Mcquaid right? THE guy behind Pantheon? He posted a few post above yours, thought now that I look his name is Blue and not Offcial Green lol
No, I was not aware of that fact. Thanks for the heads up.
Now you know, and knowledge is half the battle!
I'm hoping that they don't care about class balance in terms of pvp. I want a game with content and have the classes be balanced for that content. Most games that are pve focused and also have pvp tacked on tend to have not very good pvp. Then that game tries to balance pvp and ruins the pve aspect of that class. The same goes for pvp games with pve tacked on.
Aradune said:Bringerz said: ^PLEASE do not ruin my pvE to balance for pvP!Formulas will be kept seperate, allowing us to tweak one without changing the other and vice versa.
I'm wondering if you can expand on this. I (wrongly) assumed that this being a primarily PVE game that the PVP would be based around factions and something encountered in the world while questing. Is this correct or is there a larger plan for PVP? Like BGs or PVP lakes zones for people to fight in? Also what type of formula adjustments would be factored in? Is this like mez durations, spike damage caps from crits, etc? Or are we talking about completely different ability versions for PVP players?
quietus said:Aradune said:Bringerz said: ^PLEASE do not ruin my pvE to balance for pvP!Formulas will be kept seperate, allowing us to tweak one without changing the other and vice versa.
I'm wondering if you can expand on this. I (wrongly) assumed that this being a primarily PVE game that the PVP would be based around factions and something encountered in the world while questing. Is this correct or is there a larger plan for PVP? Like BGs or PVP lakes zones for people to fight in? Also what type of formula adjustments would be factored in? Is this like mez durations, spike damage caps from crits, etc? Or are we talking about completely different ability versions for PVP players?
As stated many times over, this is a group centric PVE game, the only plans I have ever heard talk of is to have a dedicated PVP server (or servers if needed). So if they must make changes to PVP they can do it on that server(s) only and not affect PVE
Bringerz said: ^PLEASE do not ruin my pvE to balance for pvP!
This, this and more of this.
I already saw Brad's answer, but I want this to be shouted from every rooftop, hillside and sang as the Terminus global anthem. Every class based MMO that tries to "balance" PVP with PVE ends up wrecking both. Pick one or the other, or make them totally separate things. And by totally separate, I mean give armor and weapons stats for PVP that literally have no bearing on PVE mobs and vice versa.
If PVP becomes any sort of focus for P:RotF, I know I won't care to play it even a little.
Since the "Quaternity" of Tank/Healer/DPS/CC is confirmed, one could hasard that within a same "role", there are additionnal functions added to each class that gives its differenciation and appeal. For example (I'm making this up) :
Cleric : Healing + Defensive signets and pillars
Shaman : Healing + Enhancing stats and enfeebling curses
Druid : Healing + CC with wildlife and terrain control
So if you want to support a group, you have a nice choice of which healer you want with each one feeling pretty unique. I'm really looking forward the unveiling of additionnal classes. ^^