OK, forum member Homercles posted an idea in the nametag thread. It got me thinking about how clever this is and how it adds to immersion.
OK, here is the rationale:
You want to increase immersion but, at the same time, you don't want things to become annoying or burdensome.
Here is a past example of how it was dealt with:
Mini maps were not available to you until you actually traveled a zone. You actually had to go through the zone before the map would show you the zone. This makes you actually experience a zone. It makes a new place truly NEW and yet it doesn't make it a pain every time you go there.
Homercles' next idea was this:
Player and NPC names would be unshown until you know someone. This works like maps but it adds this concept for meeting people and then, you would "recognize" them in the future.
Here is my next-gen idea:
"Reinforced Memory and Recognition". So, you would not see someone's name the second time you see them. Perhaps you would have to see them several times. Maybe you can't remember if their name is John or Jim or Joe because you only met them once so you only see a J. So, your "recognition" and memory of a name becomes stronger after repeated encounters.
Similarly, you don't just instantly and perfectly memorize a zone because you went through it once. Each time a little more detail is revealed on your maps. The first time you went through you remembered vaguely that there is a city somewhere to the West and a trail that kinda runs North-South, but that's all you remember, so your map (frankly) stinks, but as you go there several times, it becomes more and more accurate, because you have experienced it over and over and committed it to memory more.
Same with quests, you don't just remember perfectly what someone tells you in your living codex. You might have to go back and re-read it again or talk to them to learn more details.
So the idea is this: names, maps, quests, etcetera are all "emerging" bits of knowledge and you recognize things the more and more and more you reinforce it by interacting with them. Some things/names/places you might remember after one encounter. Some might take several. But everything is not just revealed to you instantly.
And here is where it gets fun!:
In addition to having to reinforce it, you can forget it. If you haven't seen a player or NPC for a long time, their name disappears .....you can't REMEMBER their name because it's been so long! Just like a zone map: after a long time not being in a zone, you forget the details and it reverts back to a less accurate and less detailed memory.
Now, you haven't totally forgotten everything so you still see some sketchy details of the map, like the city somewhere to the West but you haven't been there in so long you can't remember exactly and have to do a little exploring again - just like in real life.
This adds a whole other layer to immersion and realism. It also adds a new way for players to have to keep rediscovering the world so it never gets stale and second-hand old. Now, it's not meant to be a penalty - I'm talking you forget things slowly, like maybe if you haven't zoned into an area in a couple months some of the details start to be forgotten and then after a year or two you're back to only the first level of memory.
Also, this would add a whole other dimension to player dynamics: players could actually master zones and keep active on them (or spells or recipes or npcs or names or whatever) and people would work together "/ooc hey group of four LFM - we need someone who remembers this cave maze".
I don't think "forgetting" has ever been (as far as I know) a feature of an MMO and I think it would totally change the way the world works and could be a whole new next gen idea.
The idea as it applies to names is neat (similar to a chronicles of elyrias proposed system), but there arent going to be maps in Pantheon.
Very interesting concept and as you mentioned a "new dimension" to MMO's.
With that being said, maybe this is just me, but who actually focus's on NPC names (vendors, quest givers, etc) where you would need to remember. Personally I remember landmarks that help me guide within MMOs, not NPC names.
As far as the maps go, I am not a fan of them.
Sounds like a pretty neat idea to me. Perhaps not so much for vendors, but if the NPC that gave you the quest is also who you turn it in to, it might be a good idea to remember who and where they are. In my years of doing this MMO thing I have seem what started out as a simple-seeming quest turn into some amazing story/questline.
Thanks for replying.
Yes, this feature of forgetfulness might not apply to everything. Who knows. My idea is more about the information of the world around you - anything that is shown to you is information being given to you. I think you should have to go out and discover/learn/experience these things. If you haven't been there in a while your memory gets a little goffy and you have to do some rediscovery.
I like the maps idea because its just a simple way to explain the concept, as are NPC names.
Another area is in player skills, such are evocation or 1-hand-slash or pickpocketing or a language: if you don't use it for a long time you should get "rusty". In EQ, everyone maxed all their skills and then they were pointless. Let's pretend the bind wound skill actually was meaningful beyond like level 10. In EQ bind wound was cool but became useless very quick. OK, imagine they come up with a way to make that useful. Well, a player can't just max that skill and stay maxed. Even if they max the skill, they have to practice it once in a while to good at it. Imagine the group dynamics when someone realizes "oh dang, I'm so rusty at this - I should have kept up on this".
I studied a tiny bit of French for one of my trips to Europe - just enough to be respectful and get around. Its been ten years and I haven't spoken a word - I can't remember anything.
fazool said:Another area is in player skills, such are evocation or 1-hand-slash or pickpocketing or a language: if you don't use it for a long time you should get "rusty". In EQ, everyone maxed all their skills and then they were pointless.
This I could definately get behind. I would truly love to see this implimented.
**Sense Heading - I'm sure everyone would bind this to your movement keys and max it within the first day or so of play, therefore rendering it useless until it was actually needed**
RE: The Name thing - The name idea isn't totally new. It's been thrown around and done in RP servers in a few games for awhile.. in mmorpgs? yes I believe it would be new.. but the problem is most MMORPG'ers aren't RP'ers.. So most people would find it annoying.. perhaps on a RP server it could work tho (if they released one).
RE: The Memory thing - Hmm sounds too artifical to me. Memory varies from person to person.
RE: The Map thing - I much prefer EQ's/VR's take on this.. more much more fun having to create/edit your maps from blank. Especially if they allow us to sell the maps/give them away.
RE: The Skill decay thing - Again not so new. Same as the Name thing it's been thrown around RP servers in many other games for a while and tbh most people would find this annoying as you'd have to practise your spells constantly to keep them in check; and trust me in Pantheon.. it'll probably be bad enough leveling them in the first place.
I do like your line of thinking tho. Keep those idea's comin'.
Not really a fan of the memory idea. As Nimryl has pointed out, memory varies from person to person. I can still recall a large number of names of people I met during EQ Vanilla and that was 16+ years ago. In-game this would be more of an annoyance than immersion for me.
fazool said:
Another area is in player skills, such are evocation or 1-hand-slash or pickpocketing or a language: if you don't use it for a long time you should get "rusty". In EQ, everyone maxed all their skills and then they were pointless. Let's pretend the bind wound skill actually was meaningful beyond like level 10. In EQ bind wound was cool but became useless very quick. OK, imagine they come up with a way to make that useful. Well, a player can't just max that skill and stay maxed. Even if they max the skill, they have to practice it once in a while to good at it. Imagine the group dynamics when someone realizes "oh dang, I'm so rusty at this - I should have kept up on this".
I studied a tiny bit of French for one of my trips to Europe - just enough to be respectful and get around. Its been ten years and I haven't spoken a word - I can't remember anything.
I have always thought skills should deteriorate with lack of use. Happens in real life, why not in MMO life? Good idea.
I am neither for nor against maps at this point, as long as they don't hand hold you.