I don't generally like to make negative posts, but having just read someone's post mentioning Frogloks I had to... sorry... it brought it all flooding back when I must have blanked it out of my memory.
Please no 'silly' races. I know there's going to be a lot of fans of Frogloks out there - sorry to dis your cute lil fave - but we are talking giant frogs wearing heavy armour and flopping about. We are talking giant frogs with very high moral standards licking there own eyes. We are talking giants frogs unravelling the mysteries of the arcane and belching in a pond of an evening.
We are talking Kermit attempting to be dramatic and heroic.
No, not everything has to be straight and serious in a high-fantasy - I was actually ok with Frogloks in EQ lore as a quirkly little inclusion - but a whole playable race and massive lore arc dedicated to giant talking frogs. Please no. I remember the gut-clenching disappointment when I heard they were not a joke (well not intended as a joke) and wondering what was next. Kung Fu Pandas?... Cow-men?...
Imagine giant intelligent frogs appearing in Game of Thrones (no, it would not be cool).
Yes, it is just my opinion. Actually I'm really hoping it's not just my opinion...
I guess it is all about perception. I did not find Froglok's to be silly at all. I played a Froglok Psion/Illusionist and enjoyed it very much.
If done correctly a Froglok race could be a gritty and tough race, perhaps Lizardfolk would suit better.
Its all about what makes your boat float.
This is a good discussion and I wish I'd seen it earlier.
Klumpedge, I think you captured the crux of "To Silly or To Not?" pretty well. A lot of it depends on personal perception. It's similar to the Fae thread. Some love them to the degree they want a playable race, others can't stand them and don't even want an NPC in the game. Most will be in between those extremes, of course.
I would add that moderation and authenticity play a significant role as well. How do Froglocks or something similar function in the game world? What role do they play? What's their significance? Could they ever be a playable race? Critically: Where can you find them and how did they get there? All of those questions help triangulate the appropriate place for any race, and it's helpful to start knowning that early so they aren't a dismissable trope, even if they're lighthearted.
We field a lot of diverse opinions on what should and shouldn't be in the game. We won't ever say "We've made ONLY THE RIGHT DECISIONS. DON'T QUESTION US". Haha. Never. The community feedback is critical. But there are a lot of ideas for how Pantheon should look, from a lot of passionate people. We try to find and vet the best ideas, internally and externally.
So keep them coming!
Pretty much any anthropmorphized race is going to have it's supporters and haters.
Personally? This looked good, to me: (so shiny!)
But this? Looked way better:
I love the idea of half-animal races, and I would prefer humerous over attempts at sexy, myself. I remember the crap storm that flew around TERA and the criticisms regarding it's overly revealing outfits on certain "races". yeah. The soccer mom's of north america did NOT approve.
There's lots of options, and really, the sky is the limit with respect to creatures in a fantasy game. I mean, VG had lupine races and feline, eq2 had ratonga..If I were an animator, modeller, or designer, I would love the opportunity to create atypical creatures with atypical skeletons, rigging/movements and animations. It would be challenging and fun.
One of my greatest MMO moments of all time was when, as a gnome, I could hop on the back of my ogre or troll friends, and sit there! While we were waiting on respawn in lguk in eq1. I mean, it was ridiculous, and hilarious.
I sure didn't like dying when one of those fatties blocked the zone out, but meh. I recall feeling the panic set in when thinking... I'm not going to be able to get past that guy, then realizing... oh well, at least I'm at the zone line! :P Shrink spells, yeah, those were handy.
I look forward to a whole bunch of fish jokes, glowing skin jokes, spiky spike jokes (myr, archai, skar) in Pantheon.
disposalist said:I don't generally like to make negative posts, but having just read someone's post mentioning Frogloks I had to... sorry... it brought it all flooding back when I must have blanked it out of my memory.
Please no 'silly' races. I know there's going to be a lot of fans of Frogloks out there - sorry to dis your cute lil fave - but we are talking giant frogs wearing heavy armour and flopping about. We are talking giant frogs with very high moral standards licking there own eyes. We are talking giants frogs unravelling the mysteries of the arcane and belching in a pond of an evening.
We are talking Kermit attempting to be dramatic and heroic.
No, not everything has to be straight and serious in a high-fantasy - I was actually ok with Frogloks in EQ lore as a quirkly little inclusion - but a whole playable race and massive lore arc dedicated to giant talking frogs. Please no. I remember the gut-clenching disappointment when I heard they were not a joke (well not intended as a joke) and wondering what was next. Kung Fu Pandas?... Cow-men?...
Imagine giant intelligent frogs appearing in Game of Thrones (no, it would not be cool).
Yes, it is just my opinion. Actually I'm really hoping it's not just my opinion...
I think 'silly' in context of a race is a pretty relative term, especially in regards to lore. Im sure youre aware that there is already a water based race in the game called the 'Dark Myr', who in the lore are basically mermaids who have been turned into humans to be saved by their god. Now I dont claim to know a whole lot about frogloks or the dark myr; frogloks themselves may have seemed ridiculous to be giant frogs in heavy plate.. however i dont see them being anymore ridiculous than mermaids that were turned in to land dwelling beings.
As far as muppets i can only think of a disney character, we are talking about ariel being a dark villainous persona.
Also, on giant intelligent frogs.. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Battle Toads?
Imagine mermaids appearing in game of thrones.. or the walking dead that have been frozen for hundreds of years passed a giant wall of ice guarded by less than a quarter of a proper army.... In perspective its all a little bit 'silly' right? and thats part of what makes it all great.
But i digress. I believe if it fits the lore, any sort of race is viable as long as you buy in to the world that is being created.
Personally I loved frogloks, and I thought they were very well done and a great addition to the world of EQ. I was extremely excited when I heard they were becoming a playable race (even came back to EQ after having quit in early Luclin) but I was ultimately very disappointed in the way they changed how they look. The older froglok design from Guk was so much better. I think as long as they aren't made to be a silly race in the lore then they could be implemented quite nicely. I'd prefer lizardfolk before them, but I like more options to play as less human characters.