Forums » The Shaman

Shaman, something different for us.

    • 2275 posts
    April 1, 2016 7:57 PM PDT

    Ok, this is just a stream of consciousness type of theorycraft.  I'm bored, nothing to do so I end up posting stuff.

    EQ1, EQ2, etc...basically any game where there are item slots have a bunch which are 'accessory slots, usually non-visual.  Rings, Earrings, Necklaces, etc.  These items are usually just +stat items sometimes with an effect.  For player-made items it's some gem imbued with magic and some expensive metal forged into some magic item.  I don't see this particularly shaman.

    Shaman are, in my view, steeped in ritual and a diamond stud earring just doesn't fit.  What does fit are tattoos.  In many cultures tattoos too are steeped in ritual, associated with such things as rites of passage.

    What I'm suggesting is that instead of using accessories, shaman replace them with tattoos.  What we do as Shaman are instead are 'assign' an accessory slot to be a tattoo. The shaman then takes the accessory and through a complex ritual, infuses the power of the item into the ink after which the tattoo is drawn.

    • 3 posts
    April 2, 2016 10:32 AM PDT

    That is actaully a neat idea but I'm not sure how it would go about being implemented. Would you be able to take the tatoo off? Could you turn the tatoo back into the item it once was to sell it? Or would you just end up being covered head to toe by end game? Maybe the ability to keep adding on instead of replacing items? Of course you wouldn't be able to keep stacking stats but this might have potential. 

     

     

    • 2275 posts
    April 2, 2016 12:58 PM PDT

    Pharsalia said:

    That is actaully a neat idea but I'm not sure how it would go about being implemented. Would you be able to take the tatoo off? Could you turn the tatoo back into the item it once was to sell it? Or would you just end up being covered head to toe by end game? Maybe the ability to keep adding on instead of replacing items? Of course you wouldn't be able to keep stacking stats but this might have potential. 

    What I was thinking of was you pick a slot that you want to be represented by a tattoo. that slot has a corresponding area on the visible body where that tatoo can be seen.  That way if you wanted to have tattoos everywhere, you select all the accessory slots and set them to be tattoos instead.  If you only want a few, you just choose a few.

    My initial thought was that the tattoos would be permanent, once you converted the item into the tattoo it would remain there until you had a new more powerful item you could convert which would result in the tattoo become more complete.  Think of it as someone getting one of those large upperchest tattoos which take dozens of sessions to complete.  Same thing applies.  Your first item maybe just gives you rough outlines or a few simple feathers.  As you convert more and more powerful items, what started off as a feather or two end up being a very detailed and colorful eagle.

    My late thought something less permanent whereby by selecting a slot and checking 'represent as tattoo'. It was only a visual representation.  The earring was still an earring for equipment purposes but visually on your character it was seen as a tattoo.  There would be a huge selection of tatoos you could choose from, the size and complexity determined by the power of the item.  If you removed the item, the tattoo disappeared.  This isn't as involved as my original thought but would represent a much easier implementation.

    I guess my thoughts were focusing on the ritualistic nature of the shaman and how that can be incorporated more into our class.  The tattoos, depending upon their design, represent different bonuses, strengths and effects.  Say a large snake tattoo gives you greater strength to your poison spells while increasing your poison resists.  It also reduces your aggro radius because of how stealthily snakes move..perhaps even giving you infravision.

    Different animals and shapes imbued you with different benefits, but for these tatoos to be useful they need to have a cost.  To me that cost was sacrificing a similarly strength item to gain it's power.

    • 3 posts
    April 4, 2016 9:53 PM PDT

    That would be pretty cool if you could keep building on the same tattoo but my initial thoughts were what happens when you are max level and everything is done. There would have to be a cap or something where you couldn't add any more or else you could keep building and building, unless once you hit the cap you had to option to remove the tattoo or a part of it if you want to add additional items. Or you could maybe remove the whole thing if you are wanting to go a different path with stats etc... 

    The purely cosmetic approach would, like you said, be a lot easier to implement and maybe could evolve into something more over time. But, just having that option as a shm to be able to represent gear as tattoos would be a nice touch to the class. Depending on how the items are going to work it might be better off initially as well if you can "take off" an item tattoo to give or sell to someone else. With the idea of it would cost the item to get the tattoo I know a lot of early and even mid game currency revolves around selling of old gear so I'm not sure if that would put shamans a step behind in terms of spell purchasing etc.. I guess we will have to just wait and see but I'm on board with the tattoos, awesome idea!

    • 11 posts
    April 16, 2016 11:39 PM PDT

    This is a an excellent idea Vandraad and would love to see this implimented. Even similar approaches to other classes and not just with tattoos. Adds more unique gear and options to distinguish classes. 

    • 320 posts
    April 22, 2016 8:42 AM PDT

    I agree that this is a neat idea. Unfortunately a negative thought... won't armor cover the tattoos? A big chest tattoo could be awesome but the only way you could show it off would be to walk around town with no chest armor on, which would be kinda funny to see though. Depending on what society they are basing shamans on, feathers are a common part of the dress style. Making an (ea)ring show up as a feather on a helm would be kinda ugly based on most helm models. However, if you could mark an (ea)ring as being a feather on a weapon or something might be interesting. This wouldn't be a particle effect just an addition to the model. I will admit that I have no clue how tough it would be to add this. My brain tells me that they'd mark a points on each weapon, but again I have no clue how much extra time/effort this would take.

    • 2275 posts
    April 22, 2016 5:36 PM PDT

    tanwedar said:

    I agree that this is a neat idea. Unfortunately a negative thought... won't armor cover the tattoos? A big chest tattoo could be awesome but the only way you could show it off would be to walk around town with no chest armor on, which would be kinda funny to see though. Depending on what society they are basing shamans on, feathers are a common part of the dress style. Making an (ea)ring show up as a feather on a helm would be kinda ugly based on most helm models. However, if you could mark an (ea)ring as being a feather on a weapon or something might be interesting. This wouldn't be a particle effect just an addition to the model. I will admit that I have no clue how tough it would be to add this. My brain tells me that they'd mark a points on each weapon, but again I have no clue how much extra time/effort this would take.

    That is easily worked around by just not having certain armor types/pieces being visible or covering less of the body.  Look at some of the EQ1 Monk armor like Wu's...the chest piece had the paperdoll of a robe but when worn was just a few straps across the chest.  This is similar to how a plate BP on a human had such a different look than the same BP on an Ogre or Troll.  Different classes could just display armor in different ways.

    • 536 posts
    May 10, 2016 1:38 PM PDT

    "My late thought something less permanent whereby by selecting a slot and checking 'represent as tattoo'. It was only a visual representation.  The earring was still an earring for equipment purposes but visually on your character it was seen as a tattoo.  There would be a huge selection of tatoos you could choose from, the size and complexity determined by the power of the item.  If you removed the item, the tattoo disappeared.  This isn't as involved as my original thought but would represent a much easier implementation."

     

    I like this idea, would be pretty cool.

    As far as not being able to see the tattoo while wearing armor, just give us the option to show/hide armor pieces, much like hoods, capes, etc. That way you can still have the benfits of your armor, but look cool as heck with a gnoll tattoo humping your left bicep. 

    • 144 posts
    May 17, 2016 7:47 AM PDT

    Not to diminish the thought, but this was done in the original Guild Wars game... for the monk I believe.  His max level gear (at one point) was in fact displayed as a tattoo instead of a piece of clothing.  It wouldn't be hard to display if they wanted to do that.

    The shaman is interesting because people seem to have a varied view over what would be a typical shaman persona.  Personally I hope they vary the option or allow you to choose a type of path the shaman takes... so those that view it as more like a witch doctor can have that... and those that want it to be more like a medicine man can have that.

    • 320 posts
    May 17, 2016 11:54 AM PDT

    I know part of why shamans were a mail class in EQ was to spread out how many classes used each armor type, but how do you guys feel about that type? So many times (as you just now did Rubezahl) we keep on talking about shamans in the witch doctor and medicine man styles who didn't ever wear chainmail. To be able to spread out how many classes go after each armor type it makes sense for them to keep shamans as using mail since that keeps with EQ and other games recently, but that definitely gives another reason why the tattoo idea would be good.

    Separate thought - How do you guys feel about some shaman specific masks looking like large bones (various styles) or other tribal face accessories? It's a lot calmer (unless devs go crazy) than what comes to mind as a witch doctor mask, though those could be neat too, and it's "Something different for us"™

    • 718 posts
    May 17, 2016 12:21 PM PDT

    tanwedar said:

    Separate thought - How do you guys feel about some shaman specific masks looking like large bones (various styles) or other tribal face accessories? It's a lot calmer (unless devs go crazy) than what comes to mind as a witch doctor mask, though those could be neat too, and it's "Something different for us"™

    I think this along with the OP are great ideas.  IMO the shaman and its gear/appearance can expand in many ways.  The OP mentioned that "diamond earrings" don't fit with the shaman and I would agree to an extent.  But what about a bone stud?  Or a dream catcher or mojo earring?  That's not to say that I don't like the tattoo idea (I do) but that there are a number of ways to make the shaman feel more tribal even within the current gear paradigm.  And these concepts can extend to any of the classes really.

    The easiest way to accomplish individual class appearance would be just to change the way that gear is displayed on each class.  So a generic helm that could be used by multiple classes will look different when worn by each.  The other side is making class specific gear (i.e. shaman exclusive earring).  Or in this example, a shaman bone mask can only be worn by a shaman so there is no need to make alternate animations for the way the mask will look on other classes.  If I had to guess, I would say we will see a combination of each.

    • 1831 posts
    May 19, 2016 6:49 PM PDT

    If i remember correctly EQ had a few dolls, dream catchers, and bone masks.  I don't believe they were shaman specific though :(

    • 296 posts
    May 21, 2016 7:07 AM PDT

    The recent Voices of Terminus interview, they asked Kilsin about armor on different classes. He was not able to speak much about it. When more information is available I think we will know if the possibility of armor skins (like your example) can be adapted. If they will be, I really hope they do consider this option for the shaman, along with the Wu skins for the monk. If even a third of the classes have a unique default armor skin then it will add an immense layer of depth.

    *Remains hopeful*

    • 1831 posts
    May 21, 2016 11:05 AM PDT

    Retsof said:

    The recent Voices of Terminus interview, they asked Kilsin about armor on different classes. He was not able to speak much about it. When more information is available I think we will know if the possibility of armor skins (like your example) can be adapted. If they will be, I really hope they do consider this option for the shaman, along with the Wu skins for the monk. If even a third of the classes have a unique default armor skin then it will add an immense layer of depth.

    *Remains hopeful*

     

    yes, It would be nice :)

    • 2275 posts
    May 21, 2016 12:12 PM PDT

    What I guarantee we'll see are different armor looks based upon race.  An Ogre shaman and a Dark Myr Shaman each wearing the exact same items will display those items quite differently.

    • 73 posts
    May 30, 2016 1:51 PM PDT

    I think this is a really neat idea, and captures the tribal element quite well. What if instead of wearing armor to slots, the tattoo would be displayed, granting unique powers but also limiting the defensive ability of the shaman (since the armor is removed). This may be quite inconvenient but would be more realistic and balancing perhaps.

    • 2275 posts
    May 30, 2016 3:08 PM PDT

    Valith said:

    I think this is a really neat idea, and captures the tribal element quite well. What if instead of wearing armor to slots, the tattoo would be displayed, granting unique powers but also limiting the defensive ability of the shaman (since the armor is removed). This may be quite inconvenient but would be more realistic and balancing perhaps.

    I'm not so interested in losing some defensive ability just to display tattoos.  The Tattoo is the visual representation of the armor.  Go and look at an original EQ1 human monk as an example.  Put on a Wu's Fighting Shirt who's paperdoll shows a robe graphic but once worn all you see on the chest is a brown strap...and a tattoo!

    • 320 posts
    June 3, 2016 12:01 PM PDT

    Monks wore leather armor though. If shamans stay with the trend of wearing chain... yeah... Of course there are always the chainmail bras out there lol.

    • 2275 posts
    June 3, 2016 5:45 PM PDT

    tanwedar said:

    Monks wore leather armor though. If shamans stay with the trend of wearing chain... yeah... Of course there are always the chainmail bras out there lol.

    My point was that just because the paperdoll has a particular graphic or the item is of a particular armor type doesn't mean it needs to be represented as such.  It can have a different visual based upon the class.

    • 320 posts
    June 4, 2016 11:04 AM PDT

    That's an interesting idea considering multiple classes use the same armor type.

    • 353 posts
    June 9, 2016 3:10 PM PDT

    while i think the idea of the tats kinda neat, i think it will be unnessesary extra dev time for something that is just flavour. besides there is plenty of Ritual Jewelry in history. Ancient Egypt, many african tribes, American Indian Shaman wore beaded jewelry and medicine bags.... maybe we could get a set of ritualistic Shaman/druid only jewelry i think this would be a much less time intensive investment for the devs. not saying dont have tats, just maybe they are done at character creation.

    • 262 posts
    January 9, 2017 2:54 PM PST

    I'd like to see tattooing, piercings, maybe scarification, woad, etc as character creation options based off racial culture instead. I think it'd be a huge undertaking of dev time (and frankly server loads and GPU power) to have something like this, with a seperate set of appearance, for each class as a player customized evolving "gear slot".  And it'd have to be race class combo specific. An archai shaman might have geomantic glyph tatts, while a skar shaman might pierce his skin with beaded bones....I doubt either would have the same Celtic Cross on their shoulder. It's an amazing idea, but it'd have to be done for each race class combo to be even close to fair or some classes wouldn't get played enough due to being "visually sterile" compared to the awesomeness of class X. Plus I'd rather see the dev time and server bandwidth used for a smooth launch and greatly enjoyable game for all.

     

    I'm in awe of some of the ideas thrown around on this forum....Some amazingly creative ideas have been proposed, but let's remember this is a small team that already have their path planned out for this game. Let's see where they are steering it without us getting TOO carried away with "omg it's be awesome ifs" and then be let down with the reality of what they make simply because we each have our own special snowflake ideas about "our class should" or "my preferred weapon type should render shields useless because" or other things.

    .I'm more hyped for this game than I've been for a launch in a decade, I know others are too, but wouldn't it suck for everyone to log in and sigh that all these awesome ideas tossed around on the forums aren't in game? If a tenth of the great ideas suggested on the forums made it into game it'd be released in 2035, nobody would be able to move in game due to system lag and people would still complain about the ideas that don't make it in. I'm not saying it's bad to toss around ideas, but just that I hope everyone is keeping their actual expectations grounded that this game will be the one we already signed on for, the one VR has been presenting to us....Not the one in our heads..And that game has been good enough to get us to put our money down already right.

     

    (Not to say a few more tidbits of confirmed info here and there wouldn't help... Cough cough :p )


    This post was edited by Xilshale at January 9, 2017 7:09 PM PST
    • 536 posts
    January 25, 2017 2:53 PM PST

    Valith said:

    I think this is a really neat idea, and captures the tribal element quite well. What if instead of wearing armor to slots, the tattoo would be displayed, granting unique powers but also limiting the defensive ability of the shaman (since the armor is removed). This may be quite inconvenient but would be more realistic and balancing perhaps.

     

    But the tattoo itself would (or could) provide defensive/offensive bonuses, thus no need for armor??

    • 52 posts
    January 26, 2017 2:54 PM PST

    I'd like the shaman to be like an on-battlefield alchemist / ritualist with some sick ass buffs and rituals, that may even involve taking life power or mana from your allies for certain effects.


    This post was edited by sebbulba at January 26, 2017 2:55 PM PST
    • 536 posts
    February 17, 2017 1:03 PM PST

    sebbulba said:

    I'd like the shaman to be like an on-battlefield alchemist / ritualist with some sick ass buffs and rituals, that may even involve taking life power or mana from your allies for certain effects.

     

    Yeah, that would be cool. Drain the life force of one of your foes to boost your friends...or vice-versa? Watching the videos they have presented doesn't seem this will be the case, though...


    This post was edited by Anistosoles at February 17, 2017 1:03 PM PST