Hello!
So, in the reading/watching/listening I've done about Pantheon so far, there's some questions that have popped up. Figured I'd put them in a post, and see if I couldn't get some answers, or at least thoughts on them.
1) First one has to do with the environment designs in Pantheon, and the amount of "interweaving" or "overlap" between them.
I'll use an example from FFXI as it has, in my opinion, some of the best examples of this that I've personally ever seen in a MMORPG.
It can be confusing to describe what I mean, so I took some maps from FFXI to illustrate a simple example of it...
This is comprised of 3 different maps.. I just did some cropping/cleaning to make it easier to label, etc. So, the area of interest is the location labeled as "End". This spot exists in an elevated part of Rolanberry Fields which is inaccessible from the outside, but requires you to go through a dungeon to reach it. This is, again, a simple example of this kind of setup, but similar and more elaborate examples exist throughout the world.
I always loved this about FFXI - how there are parts of a zone that you can't access without traversing through other - potentially dangerous and/or higher level areas to reach. It maintains a sense of mystery to the world, giving the player something to look forward to and wonder about. Another similar setup has players starting in a low level field, going into a dungeon, going into an even deeper dungeon, and then having the ability to exit back into one of the major cities. It can also help to keep zones relevant across a broader level range - a subject I'm going to touch on in another question.
I always felt like this design helped make XI's Vana'diel feel much more believable as a world, where areas weren't so neatly separated into discrete "pockets", but actually blended into each other in some way.
Is the world design of Pantheon being created with this kind of overlap/interplay? Will areas of a given zone be only accessible by coming around from a different zone, or passing through a dungeon, etc?
2) Level ranges. Continuing with the theme I touched on in my last post, I'm curious what the level range of areas will be. Again, using FFXI as an example, they seemed to follow a pattern in that game. Overworld zones would cover a roughly 10 level range. Dungeons, however, could range from level 5 all the way up to level cap, or near to it. The deeper you got into the dungeon, and as you passed certain thresholds (going down a level, going through a door, etc) the higher level the mobs would get.
One example would be King Ranperre's Tomb. The tomb is broken up into two major sections, low level and high level. The lower level range is 2-23, and the higher range is 60-83. This kind of set up makes it kind of a constant "tease" to players, as they find themselves getting deeper in each time they come back, but find that they need to come back yet again when they realize there's tougher enemies yet. This also allows them to implement content across all those level ranges, and they do. There are quests that send you down there pretty early on, and again later. There are powerful rare mobs that spawn in there, with Vrtra being one of the oldest and best known. Its setup also accomodates xp parties very well. It is - or was, anyway - a popular place to go with an all-Monk (and a healer) party, to go beat up on skeletons for some nice xp. Like Pantheon, XI has the concept of different "body types". Skeletons are very weak against blunt damage, which is exactly the kind Monks dish out, making them perfect targets for that kind of setup.
So, within a single dungeon, you have a wide spread of levels, supporting a wide range of content. Again, this seems - to me - to be a much more "world-like" set up for such an area. And this is a common theme across pretty much all the dungeon type areas in XI.
Another benefit of this is that it keeps those places active, as they're never truly obsolete - there's always some reason to go back there. I remember being in another dungeon in XI, called Maze of Shakhrami, at around 18-ish, I think(?), and seeing some higher level players running by. I didn't understand why they were there, as the mobs we were fighting would have given them little, if any xp. I then learned that the dungeon went a lot deeper than what I'd seen so far, and that the mobs went up significantly in level. They were there for a quest that required them to go to the lower levels of the place. That insight made the place *so* much more interesting to me. I became eager to see what those deeper areas were like when I was able to safely visit them myself (and they were pretty cool, as I recall.. giant skeletons of some creatures, etc). I'd also learn that Shakhrami exited to 3 different zones, making it almost a "hub" kind of zone as well.
Is this something like how dungeon-type zones will be in Pantheon? Will players need to come back at different levels in order to progress further and take on more difficult content? Or is it going to be designed entirely around a specific level range, and then they move on to the next? Quite selfishly, I really hope it's more the former :).
3) Lastly, and the shortest question... For the different types of "magic weather" the game is going to feature... Are the relics, or other means, to safely negate or harness the effects of some types going to be rare or otherwise difficult to acquire? Like, let's say you encountered a really powerful aura - something like the one you encounter in the livestream, but much deadlier - tucked away out in the wilderness (perhaps even right in one of the lower level zones!). Might the means to pass that barrier be obtained only by reaching the deepest parts of some dungeon/cavern, maybe defeating some difficult foe, or completing some epic quest for someone, etc? It would be very rewarding, I would think, once people obtained the item and realized they could now *finally* see what was hiding behind that impassible entrance all that time.
Is anything like that planned for Pantheon?
Thanks!
Alas we don't know for sure yet as they haven't shown us any information on dungeons. But I'd love to see what you describe in 1 and 2. As Linkamus said EQ did do this to some extent but the idea could be taken much further. I like the ideas presented and if we saw something similar in Pantheon I'd be very happy indeed.
I especially like the idea of high level areas that once you fight through them you get access to areas that are inaccessible any other way. That kind of reward is what keeps bringing me back to MMOs. I know EQ had similar areas but it could be so much more complex these days. I like the idea of secret doors and areas that are really hard to find and basically anything that makes people explore around them to find all the secrets of a zone.
Indeed! I feel like too many MMOs, especially nowadays, design their zones/areas to be almost completely utilitarian, and not so much as something that can make the experience and the world that much deeper and more interesting.
I thought of another interesting way that XI's dungeons kept areas "mysterious" while also requiring group involvement.
A dungeon called Garlaige Citadel was separated into 3 main areas, each separated by a "Banishing Gate". As you passed through each gate, the mobs would increase in level, etc. Treasure coffers containing rare gear or items could randomly spawn anywhere in the Citadel, and sometimes you'd have to go through those gates to find it.
What was really cool about the Banishing Gates, is that each one required 4 players to stand on as many floor switches to be opened. Once the gate was open, people had time to run through before the gate closed again. This could be difficult, as there were aggressive mobs around each gate, and the switches. So you'd very likely have to clear some of those out before you could safely pass through.
Garlaige was also separated into two main floors, with the lower level containing mobs from the mid/high 50s into the 60s, while the upper floor started around level 40 (they've added even higher level targets since the release of Abyssea and raised the level cap). There's also a rare spawn, named 'Serket', who would spawn in the large chamber of the lower floor. He could drop an item required in the crafting of a really nice piece of gear (Scorpion Harness), which made him a highly contested target back in the day. This is another example of having content that can still bring players back to a zone, even after they may have otherwise "out-leveled" it.
Something I also liked in the Citadel was how you could drop through holes in the floor for quick access to the lower level, but then had to run around the long way to get back up.
I could seriously go on for pages and pages singing the praises I have for so much of the zone/world design in FFXI. They really did a lot of creative and clever things with each area.