Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

DEATH TO THE AUCTION HOUSE!!!

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    • 707 posts
    February 5, 2016 10:47 PM PST

    Mephiles said:

    Krixus said:

     

    People CHOOSE where to build their cities. People CHOSE the EC tunnel, because it was a population and travel hub. Freeport and the connection between NRO and EC is the river, not the freakin auction house. Good grief. 

     I didn't say that the tunnel was an auction house, im saying that the tunnel existed where it was for the same reasons why people go to an auction house.People CHOOSE to use the auction house in the place it is located if doing so is convenient. It is the same exact thing, people CHOOSE what makes sense and if it makes sense to use an auction house they will do so and if it does not then they will not, if using the auction house AND having a player market makes sense then it will happen.



    The EC tunnel, where it is, did NOT exist for the same reasons. The EC tunnel came to life organically due to location, population, safety, amnemnities, etc. The auction house are specifically designed and vendors are placed in specific location all across the world. PLAYERS created the EC tunnel where DEVELOPERS create the auction houses. Yes, certain auction houses tend to be more popular than others due to location, population, etc but this has nothing to do with what the EC tunnel is or how it was created.

    "The main reason you seem to have a problem with an auction house is not that it is truly artificial or that it isn't infrastructure for players to organically form around (do not forget that most games offer alternatives to using the auction house for trade and thus it is player choice that drives them to the auction house) but that you want a structure of market that is more controled by players than an auction house is." this is a quote by you from a previous response.

    NO this is NOT the problem. I can't speak for Krixus myself but I'm pretty sure this isn't what his problem is. The problem is that it eliminates the NECCESSITY of that face-to-face transaction. The EC tunnel is a singular trading house (so to say), where ALL the trading is done specifically in that one area. It's immersive. You have to physically be there to sell your items and you have to physically go there to buy any items. It's not a connected web of NPCs who contain all the items of the world to sell to you at the press of a button. Auction houses are all over in many different cities. No matter where you are in the world chances are there is an auction house near by. Chances in EQ were that you could be VERY far from the EC tunnel and if you were in need of some items for you to make use of its 'trading system' you had to physcially go to the EC tunnel.

    I don't want to sound cliche' or whatever but I don't know what other words to use, but there is something magical when stuff like that creates itself organically. And having a global auction house could hurt the chances of organic features and/or immersive gameplay such as the EC tunnel from possibly happening in Pantheon.

    • 1455 posts
    February 6, 2016 3:38 AM PST

    Kayd said:

    My argumet against auction houses is more that makes it way too easy to determine the price of a thing. No player should ever know with absolute certainty what the best price is for any item. And no system should exist that puts every seller of an item in competition with every other seller of the same item. It leads to sky high prices for items where the demand is ever so slightly higher than supply, and crashing prices for anything where supply is ever so slightly higher than demand. That's not a real market, it's a teeter-tooter where it's never even possible to arrive at the best rate for items to come into the world because the margin between too fast and too slow is razor thin.

    For lack of a like button, let me say,"YEP!" Good points.

    • 158 posts
    February 6, 2016 12:08 PM PST

    NoobieDoo said:

    Mephiles said:

    Krixus said:

     

    People CHOOSE where to build their cities. People CHOSE the EC tunnel, because it was a population and travel hub. Freeport and the connection between NRO and EC is the river, not the freakin auction house. Good grief. 

     I didn't say that the tunnel was an auction house, im saying that the tunnel existed where it was for the same reasons why people go to an auction house.People CHOOSE to use the auction house in the place it is located if doing so is convenient. It is the same exact thing, people CHOOSE what makes sense and if it makes sense to use an auction house they will do so and if it does not then they will not, if using the auction house AND having a player market makes sense then it will happen.



    The EC tunnel, where it is, did NOT exist for the same reasons. The EC tunnel came to life organically due to location, population, safety, amnemnities, etc. The auction house are specifically designed and vendors are placed in specific location all across the world. PLAYERS created the EC tunnel where DEVELOPERS create the auction houses. Yes, certain auction houses tend to be more popular than others due to location, population, etc but this has nothing to do with what the EC tunnel is or how it was created.

    "The main reason you seem to have a problem with an auction house is not that it is truly artificial or that it isn't infrastructure for players to organically form around (do not forget that most games offer alternatives to using the auction house for trade and thus it is player choice that drives them to the auction house) but that you want a structure of market that is more controled by players than an auction house is." this is a quote by you from a previous response.

    NO this is NOT the problem. I can't speak for Krixus myself but I'm pretty sure this isn't what his problem is. The problem is that it eliminates the NECCESSITY of that face-to-face transaction. The EC tunnel is a singular trading house (so to say), where ALL the trading is done specifically in that one area. It's immersive. You have to physically be there to sell your items and you have to physically go there to buy any items. It's not a connected web of NPCs who contain all the items of the world to sell to you at the press of a button. Auction houses are all over in many different cities. No matter where you are in the world chances are there is an auction house near by. Chances in EQ were that you could be VERY far from the EC tunnel and if you were in need of some items for you to make use of its 'trading system' you had to physcially go to the EC tunnel.

    I don't want to sound cliche' or whatever but I don't know what other words to use, but there is something magical when stuff like that creates itself organically. And having a global auction house could hurt the chances of organic features and/or immersive gameplay such as the EC tunnel from possibly happening in Pantheon.

     

    Yellow: That IS the same thing, developer design of the world and placed tools/features resulted in it being located where it is. Further, design of trade systems, player kiosks, and any functions related to trade also affect how players end up reacting. The Auction house is just a tool that players end up using like any one of those things. Again, your issue is related to the LEVEL of player control of the market NOT that dev introduced elements are artificial (every element of the game directly or indirecty results in player action which would make all aspects of a game artificial causing that to lose meaning).

     

    Red: That is false and I explained how that is so. It CAN do that but there are ways that an auction house can be implimented that does NOT eliminate that.

     

    Having said that I respect the desire for those magical moments. I don't know that I will ever be able to see it that way personally. I have played games with 0 auction house infrastructure and the trade there is usually awful but that is exactly what I have been trying to address here. A bad implementation does not mean a system is bad or that a better implimentaion could not exist. I have only seen bad experiences with no auction house (FFXIV 1.0, several asian mmos) where it is disorganized and nearly impossible to find what you are looking for where it would be a better use of your time to go out and just do things yourself through a network of alts than it would be to try to navigate what sprung up in place of the auction house. This doesn't mean it didn't work in everquest, it doesn't mean it can't work here and I think the same applies to an auction house. It could go either way as far as I am concerned, the main thing that I keep trying to point out is that many people here like to state things as rules (this = that period) and these rules are more often than not failing to account for alternative implimentation.


    This post was edited by Mephiles at February 6, 2016 12:10 PM PST
    • 1986 posts
    February 6, 2016 2:28 PM PST

    Ill definitely have to agree with your last sentence Mephiles. I usually attribute it to what I call the "If EQ didnt do it then it sucks" effect. Now thats not to say every EQ Vet is like this but there are a few it wouldnt kill them to lighten up a bit. The key things I keep in mind when thinking about this game is does it fit with what VR is doing. If an idea is brought up and it fits that, then its a bit over zealous to call it into question because its not what EQ did. It is possible for this game to be oldschool and still not be a carbon copy of EQ. When it makes sense this game should ideally pull from everything from Ultima to VG. Cant think of any games later than VG that would be acceptable to pull from though. But hey I could be wrong about that.

     

    On the issue itself Im a bit on the fence. I want to be able to find what I need particularly if its an everyday item. I shouldnt have to go on an epic quest to find salt. Though I think it is more realistic to need to shop around for say a new sword. So whatever kind of convoluted and complicated scheme people want to come up with. As long as it ends up like that, then I dont care if its AH, a bazzar, or the Home Shopping Network.

    • 607 posts
    February 6, 2016 3:07 PM PST

    Sevens said:

    Im 100% with the no auction house..no bazaar, no automated trading what so ever

    You want to sell, head to the local zone that is designated for trade (starting cities anyone) and spend the day hawking your wares

    You want to buy, head to the same place and search for the best deal you can. Its a great system that worked wonderfully in EQ. It helps build a community, soon people get to be known for their wares. One thing I hope they avoid is allowing everyone to do every tradeskill. If you are a chef you shouldnt be a armorer too. Just seemed silly in EQ that you could master out every TS

    Well, first of all what I can say for certain is there will be no global auction house or bazarre.  We want travel and remote regions to matter and for trade to take place in different areas and to see items fluctuate in value depending on how hard it was or wasn't to obtain and then bring to the area where you want to sell it.  A player driven economy, as I've said many times, is paramount to Pantheon.

    What you describe above, essentially the way EQ was set up in the beginning and players coming together themselves to trade, buy, and sell is an appealing idea.  I generally like it when the players are driving things and places of commerce arise organically.

    That said, there is something to be said about a basic system that allows you to sell your items while offline, or that allows you to search for an item for sale in the local area you are in...

    This really touches on a bigger issue that we're still thinking very hard about:  Vanilla EQ pretty much left everything up to the players.... want to find a group?  Well, we had the /lfg flag, but not much more.  Players were on their own to make friends, put groups together, to sell and buy items, etc.  I guess the question that often comes up is:  will players newer to MMOs or who didn't play the early more open and organic MMOs struggle too much without a little help?  Also:  do we create some sort of local UI that helps people buy and sell?  Do we let people perhaps put an item on a merchant and sell it by consignment (e.g. someone can buy it while the owner is offline)?  How about grouping?  How about the community in general?  Should we try to be a bit proactive and help people find groups and make friends, etc.?  

    I know one could say, well, EQ didn't need any help -- the players came together and did most of this kind of stuff themselves.  But, at the same time, this isn't 1999.  Many people who will try Pantheon will not have that perspective and will be coming from games that do make a proactive approach in many areas... that provide an interface, or tools, to help players with transactions, grouping, etc.

    I'm personally of the opinion that there has been so much hand-holding in recent games that we should try to be proactive, within reason of course.  And I say that because I know some of you are probably worried about what I am saying and that we would take this too far and start implementing dungeon-finders and such.  Yes, I agree, it could be taken too far, but we won't let that happen.

    So then, I open this question to all of you:  What is too far?  Do you think we should leave all of this completely to the players?  Do you think we should have some functionality that assists players in doing item transactions, or finding people to group with, etc.?  If so, what would be acceptable, and what would be taking it too far?

    thanks in advance for your feedback and ideas,

    -Brad

    • 230 posts
    February 6, 2016 3:33 PM PST

    I found that when the bazaar was introduced it greatly enhanced my EQ experiance. Our buy/sell zone wasn't EC tunnel, it was Freeport (Nth I think where the bank was) being an unfriendly race (Ogre) It was kind of dangerous to buy and sell goods. Guards walks past *whack* dead. Then hope someone in zone could rez. Being non US based it was also harder to buy things with fewer people around to buy from.

    The Bazaar opened up more items that I could buy as it didn't rely on the seller to be up at 3am their time. It also helped with a HUGE price drop. I recall one item I wanted was 1200pp (couln't afford it) which when the bazaar opened people cleared out their old items from the bank they couldn't be bothered trying to sell and put them up so I eventually got the item for 400pp.

    It made my gaming experiance more enjoyable. Some people also enjoy the market side of games. Being able to buy and sell items and craft is also part of the game. I enjoy that almost more than adventuring at times. The people who don't like the bazaar/auction houses probably enjoy the adventuring side of the game more so want to negotiate their price higher than someone who sticks the same item up and they have to undercut it to sell it.

    Everyone likes different things. Having a way to buy when people are no available due to time zones etc is something I do like.

    • 1455 posts
    February 6, 2016 3:59 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    ...

    That said, there is something to be said about a basic system that allows you to sell your items while offline, or that allows you to search for an item for sale in the local area you are in...

    This really touches on a bigger issue that we're still thinking very hard about:  Vanilla EQ pretty much left everything up to the players.... want to find a group?  Well, we had the /lfg flag, but not much more.  Players were on their own to make friends, put groups together, to sell and buy items, etc.  I guess the question that often comes up is:  will players newer to MMOs or who didn't play the early more open and organic MMOs struggle too much without a little help?

    ...

    thanks in advance for your feedback and ideas,

    -Brad

    I think new players will struggle to some degree. I have no problem with there being some form of consignment, as long as it comes with a hefty tax. In fact, I think anything outside of manually exchanging items in your trade window, live and in person, should be taxed. I think its important to preserve trader gameplay. To do that, I think its necessary make it most rewarding to do all your trading in person.

    These are the type or taxes I'd suggest on different ways of selling items.

    Global AH - 50% tax.

    Regional AH (continent wide) - 45% tax.

    Local AH  (city wide) - 40% tax.

    Local consignment vendor - 35% tax.

    Personal vendor - 30% tax.

    Offline stall - 25% tax

    The tax rates reflect the amount of convenience it offers the player, accessibility to others, and also the amount of work that the vendors, auctioneers and everyone involved in the process would have to charge in real life to facilitate such a system (fees for the auctioneer, auction staff, cost of shipping items, etc). Even if you were to go offline, you should be charged to use the stall.

    I believe with such a system, people who don't care about trading would utilize at least 1 form of automation. Maybe not for their biggest items, but perhaps for their less valuable. I can see things that sell for only a few plat being placed even on a global AH, despite the high tax. However, it would be unlikely that someone would put an item worth 10k up there you would have to increase the price dramatically to get what it was worth. They may choose to use a personal vendor though, even though it costs them 30%.

    Just some ideas. I'm not necessarily advocating the use of all those automated forms of trade, only using it to demonstrate how I think some form of automation could work without ruining traditional trade altogether.


    This post was edited by Dullahan at February 6, 2016 4:02 PM PST
    • 1009 posts
    February 6, 2016 4:24 PM PST
    To start - I will admit my bias. I'm just flat out against automation.

    @Dullahan

    Even with taxes the economy would eventually equalize with the going rate on items and taxes would be a hinderance nothing more. The vast majority would use the AH still and the only real positive effect of the taxes would be curbing inflation by removing gold from the market. Basically you would have items marked up due to taxes, but people would use the AH still due to convenience.

    Would there be a few outliers such as epic level crafted items sold in person - sure, but you remove most of all the trader gameplay.

    And, my desire for no automation is not entirely about trade itself, but the other negative ramifications that are impacted as a result which I mentioned in my novel on the first page.

    The compromise for me would be the trade board/classified ad/craiglist style that would still require the trader to be online and present also mentioned in the same post.

    And @Aradune - as far as scaring away gamers, in any challenging aspect of life - if I know the expectations, how to do engage in the activity etc. I (players) will adapt. Hardly anyone is going to sign up for the most challenging task, but most everyone feels better after accomplishing one versus a trivial task.

    And, once they experience the sandbox style, I firmly believe its one or those aspects they'll like it even if they don't think they will before trying it.

    Worst case scenario, you add an AH later - you can't go back from one.
    • 1986 posts
    February 6, 2016 4:30 PM PST

    I could get on board with you basic concept Dullahan, but those taxes are ridiculous. Want to know whats too far Brad? What Dullahan said. No one would even bother. Some might even leave. The most Id put up with is 15%...... maybe. After that Id likely just NPC crap, even stuff that crafters could use because I coundnt be bothered with it. Only thing I would do is do face to face trade for expensive selling items.

     

    In answer to the questions:

    Yes there should be some systems in place to help make buying and selling easier. It would probably need to be limited but as I said before a balance between being able to get everyday items fast (and not taxed to death) and getting less comon items being a bit more involved (with an option not to get taxed to death if you choose).

    Finding groups should be good old shouting or asking guildies, or even like a flagging system. Maybe the idea of posting for party members or looking for a party on a board (not my idea). But no LFG/dungeon finder automated stuff. Thats too far.

    • 52 posts
    February 6, 2016 4:46 PM PST

    Absolutely no reason we can't have regional auction houses as well as regional player shops. The differences being convenience and taxes. FFXI did it well.


    This post was edited by Aldie at February 6, 2016 4:47 PM PST
    • 1455 posts
    February 6, 2016 4:56 PM PST

    Amsai said:

    I could get on board with you basic concept Dullahan, but those taxes are ridiculous. Want to know whats too far Brad? What Dullahan said. No one would even bother. Some might even leave. The most Id put up with is 15%...... maybe. After that Id likely just NPC crap, even stuff that crafters could use because I coundnt be bothered with it. Only thing I would do is do face to face trade for expensive selling items.

     

    In answer to the questions:

    Yes there should be some systems in place to help make buying and selling easier. It would probably need to be limited but as I said before a balance between being able to get everyday items fast (and not taxed to death) and getting less comon items being a bit more involved (with an option not to get taxed to death if you choose).

    Finding groups should be good old shouting or asking guildies, or even like a flagging system. Maybe the idea of posting for party members or looking for a party on a board (not my idea). But no LFG/dungeon finder automated stuff. Thats too far.

    I don't think you understand. Without such a deterrent, there would be no traditional trade so if the goal is to preserve it, that means the alternative without steep taxes is no AH at all. In real life, a consignment shop will charge you just as much. To bring your goods to a major auction, it also costs.

    @Raiden - I don't think its realistic to conclude everyone will use the AH even with such steep taxes. There will be a going rate for items. If you have an item worth 5k, you would only get 2.5k on the global auction after taxes. Its just not realistic to think people would use the most accessible option with such a high tax if they lose that much.

    The player that doesn't use the AH has the ability to make the full 5k straight up.

    • 118 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:08 PM PST

    Dullahan said:

    Its just not realistic to think people would use the most accessible option with such a high tax if they lose that much.

    It's going to come down to the individual players. Everyone preaching about no automation wouldn't use that AH, as they enjoy player to player interaction as well as the extra coin. Others, like myself, would probably try a couple minutes to trade in person while concluding business in town. When ready to get back in the world and still heavy with unsold items, I would most definatly sell it despite the tax on it.

    After all, an item looted has no value until it's sold. 2.5k is better than none.

    • 1986 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:09 PM PST

    Well if thats the case (and Im not conviced it is), but assuming so, then dont even bother wasting resources on something nobody will use. Why not just simplify your statement to: No other system than face to face trade. If it wasnt for the fact that I know you were serious in your tax amounts, my response would have been something like: Try to only submit serious suggestions Dullahan.


    This post was edited by Amsai at February 6, 2016 5:11 PM PST
    • 1009 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:16 PM PST

    @Dullahan,

    We agree on most things, but we will disagree here.  I think you're underestimating the power of convenience.  With taxes, I would gladly list my items and make 50% of the listed total. I could make 2.5k out of the 5k, go back to the dungeon and make more money/exp/etc. versus having to be physically be present to sell the item to get the full 5k.  Not only could you recoup some/most/all of the money by going back to the dungeon but, there's also additional opportunity of obtaining other items/gear/exp/crafting mats etc.

    And strangely enough Mekada, I preach for no automation, but would use it if it was present as it's offering me a path of least resistance to get back to the adventuring sphere which I enjoy more.

    • 1455 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:32 PM PST

    Amsai said:

    Well if thats the case (and Im not conviced it is), but assuming so, then dont even bother wasting resources on something nobody will use. Why not just simplify your statement to: No other system than face to face trade. If it wasnt for the fact that I know you were serious in your tax amounts, my response would have been something like: Try to only submit serious suggestions Dullahan.

    You mean a realistic amount? Google consignment shop. Its not uncommon for such shops to charge 50%.

    If it was up to me, I'd rather have no trade convenience rather than the AH as it exists in most games. However, though an AH does take from the social nature of the game and hurt trader gameplay, not having one is also unrealistic as such forms of commerce have existed since.. always.

    Thus, I find the only solution to creating some convenience so the game is realistic and not a rude awakening to new players, is to simply put a realistic tax on it.

    I still disagree that everyone will accept using an AH with high taxes for the most valuable items. I know I never would, and based on Amsai's reaction, he clearly wouldn't either. However, I'd probably throw up mundane items there and I'd likely use a personal vending stall @ 25%.

    The game should be about options. I have no problem with people who don't like trading and who want to spend all their time adventuring having convenience at a price. If a guy like Raiden wants to list an item on the AH, that is his perogative, but the fact that he does so makes manually trading even more lucrative for the player that likes to wheel and deal.


    This post was edited by Dullahan at February 6, 2016 5:43 PM PST
    • 213 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:41 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    I'm personally of the opinion that there has been so much hand-holding in recent games that we should try to be proactive, within reason of course.  And I say that because I know some of you are probably worried about what I am saying and that we would take this too far and start implementing dungeon-finders and such.  Yes, I agree, it could be taken too far, but we won't let that happen.

    So then, I open this question to all of you:  What is too far?  Do you think we should leave all of this completely to the players?  Do you think we should have some functionality that assists players in doing item transactions, or finding people to group with, etc.?  If so, what would be acceptable, and what would be taking it too far?

    thanks in advance for your feedback and ideas,

    -Brad

    Maybe they have good reason to be,but there are some that seem way too paranoid about dumbing down the game. They don't even want to entertain the idea that some Quality of Life changes are a good thing. It wouldn't surprise if some would argue against clickable links inchat that shows the item stats. Why would that have to remain a chore to do? Convenience and QoL doesn't HAVE to be at the expense of depth, interaction, or difficulty. There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Just be open to consider the possibility of other solotions that do not sacrifice what players want to maintain without having everything be a complete chore or PITA.

    • 1202 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:47 PM PST

    Hand holding is bad in life and in a game.

    • 295 posts
    February 6, 2016 5:50 PM PST

    While I agree with Dullahan for the most part that those kinds of taxes would reduce the use of an AH style system, I also agree with Raidan that I just don't think its a good idea.  A lot of new players will see an auction house and think "Ok this is something I'm used to, lets sell some goods."

     

    Then they start selling and realize that its taking a 50% cut and start think WTH?  This game is retarded I can't sell my wares!  Even though we would know that statement is true, there are a lot of players out there I think that don't stay informed on games and the reasons things are the way they are, and they might overreact and stop playing altogether.  And you may say good riddance, but I would prefer to just leave AH style systems out of the game entirely.

     

    I am however for a bazaar style system, however I believe that there should be a price limit to the bazaar.  What I mean is, I would put a limit on how much items could be sold for within this system, if I were to use EQ as a model, I would limit sale of items at 200 platinum, no more.  This makes research components, crafting components, and overall things that should be made easier to exchange hands able to do so without ruining the trade model of the game requiring players to meet up to sell goods that aren't at least a moderate trade.  I always felt this was one of the weak points of everquest, that a lot of low end gear was simply vendored, and research components had to be found using Dumpster Diving(TM) strategies.  The bazaar style system that was restricted to low price items only would facilitate this trade without ruining the core principle of trading.

    • 465 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:02 PM PST

    In the end there has to be some sort of Balance.  A LOT of people hated he EC tunnel because of the massive amount of time it took to get even simple things  I remember needing items and finding it hard to get then it ruins the group I had put together because I spent to long stocking up.  I really believe the best of both worlds would be player housing and you can list your items for sale.  In each town is whats for sale and the address.  You then need to run around find he house and buy it if you really want it.  If you want to haggle talk to the guy and haggle and if you just want those 5000 arrows then buy them.  Hell you can tax all sales unless you are in the Bazaar area give the player another choice pay tax or try to run the sellers gauntlet and get the best deal.  But if you make buying common things to hard then people will roll a toon and make every crafter and only make stuff for guild mates leaving the people that hate crafting SOL.

    You need to balance somethings and Quality of life issues don't mean you are dumbing down the game you are just allowing people to play in a way they want that in the end doesnt really affect the workings of the game anymore then the player wants them to be.

     

    • 1009 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:15 PM PST

    @RallyD

    I've thought about the crafting/spell mats as well, and it was a PITA to obtain them in EQ.  I would be ok with that compromise epsecially as it would help those who played in off hours.

    @Dullahan

    Your point on the buy low/sell high of manually trading off of people like me would be the reason I'd be even more aganist the AH.  An AH allows someone to monopolize the market much easier than an EC style system.

    And, I've thought about what you've suggested on consignment shops fairly recently actually.  I thought during our recent discussions on MMORPG about trade the realism of an AH versus Online Stores today, and if I was wrong in suggesting that an AH wasn't real, or shouldn't be implemented or even if it's comparable/realistic.  And, I'd argue that even though online sales allow you usually to purchase goods/services at any time from any location, it's nearly impossible to find all items that are being sold at all time globally, even all items being sold regionally, or even locally - so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

    Now you're correct, consignment shops have been in existence, well, since, forever.  So, another thought I had instead of having an AH, or offline trading, etc. was having true trader gameplay.  The player could hire another player to sell their goods for them if they didn't want to themselves for some set gold/hr (minimum wage in Pantheon based on inflation that would rise in gold/hr based on their success rate?).  Perhaps similar to a job board, a trader could post their Looking for Job status on a searchable board?  Basically similar to the bazaar with trading stalls, etc., but the player hired had to be present.  So, they'd be /auctioning wares from a stall in a zone like the bazaar, and if they left the stall then it ended their trader mode.  This would be more realistic to true consignment shops as the player selling the goods (who is being paid as a trader) would have to be present to sell the wares, and would receive the cut.  Would a lot of players engage in trade?  Who knows, but it would provide other options to the player who only wanted to adventure and wanted to do some form of automation.

    Again, I'd be for no automation, but, if it "has" to be implemented, I'm for brainstorming better options.

    *edit:  I'd add that I would want this in combination with a trading board that would be similar to classified ads/craigslist where you could list your items for sale, and if you were on, a player could send if you a tell to meet up.  If not, they'd have to keep checking back.


    This post was edited by Raidan at February 6, 2016 6:45 PM PST
    • 105 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:27 PM PST

    There should be no bazaar, there should be no Auction System, because the game shouldn’t be catering to those who don't want to spend the effort to sell their goods, to some of us it wasn't a burden but an awesome element to the game that we enjoyed.  If you want to sell stuff, I certainly hope there will be a means to do it, but there is no reason why you need an Auction House, except that you want to make easy money selling your junk without putting in the time to do it.  Personally, I want to put the time into doing it, socializing and bargaining and traveling, an Auction house kills that.  If the server develops an East Commons, joy, good for the community, that's pretty cool, and will make life a little easier for people who want to sell, but there is no reason to insert an Auction House.  The only reason anyone wants it, is because you don't want to put the time into doing it, you want the game to be about getting good deals with little work, by inserting Amazon.com into the game.  This was an awesome sandbox element to EQ, I hope they keep it alive and don't cater to those that want to spend all day camping mobs, questing, or crafting, and still be able to sell anything they want with ease.  Keep the trade aspect of the game alive, some of us enjoy doing that.  I recommended earlier actually making trader a profession I would be cool with a system like that because it doesn't kill the dream.


    This post was edited by geatz at February 6, 2016 6:28 PM PST
    • 1986 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:33 PM PST

    @Kalgore

    Nice and sensable.

    • 105 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:42 PM PST

    Amsai said:

    @Kalgore

    Nice and sensable.

     

    It isn't sensable to completely eliminate an aspect to the game.  I mean I don't like crafting and I know a lot of other people don't, so maybe we can keep the crafting trade alive but for those of us that don't want to craft we can just go and purchase our own NPC crafter, that way I can get the weapons I want without having to actually craft or buy from PC crafters.  Sounds fair and sensible to me, I mean you can still craft and I can get all the benefits of crafting without doing the work.

    • 1762 posts
    February 6, 2016 6:48 PM PST

    geatz said:

    There should be no bazaar, there should be no Auction System, because the game shouldn’t be catering to those who don't want to spend the effort to sell their goods, to some of us it wasn't a burden but an awesome element to the game that we enjoyed.  If you want to sell stuff, I certainly hope there will be a means to do it, but there is no reason why you need an Auction House, except that you want to make easy money selling your junk without putting in the time to do it.  Personally, I want to put the time into doing it, socializing and bargaining and traveling, an Auction house kills that.  If the server develops an East Commons, joy, good for the community, that's pretty cool, and will make life a little easier for people who want to sell, but there is no reason to insert an Auction House.  The only reason anyone wants it, is because you don't want to put the time into doing it, you want the game to be about getting good deals with little work, by inserting Amazon.com into the game.  This was an awesome sandbox element to EQ, I hope they keep it alive and don't cater to those that want to spend all day camping mobs, questing, or crafting, and still be able to sell anything they want with ease.  Keep the trade aspect of the game alive, some of us enjoy doing that.  I recommended earlier actually making trader a profession I would be cool with a system like that because it doesn't kill the dream.

    No auction house will give rise to professional buyers and sellers too, people who get rich on the market and equip themselves without doing much adventuring. My daily group in the beginning of EQ would offload our bronze/fine steel/etc to a guy just to be rid of it and he'd turn around and flip it and did very well for himself. There are tons of examples like this that an auction house would not allow to happen. 

    • 465 posts
    February 6, 2016 7:10 PM PST

    Krixus said:

    geatz said:

    There should be no bazaar, there should be no Auction System, because the game shouldn’t be catering to those who don't want to spend the effort to sell their goods, to some of us it wasn't a burden but an awesome element to the game that we enjoyed.  If you want to sell stuff, I certainly hope there will be a means to do it, but there is no reason why you need an Auction House, except that you want to make easy money selling your junk without putting in the time to do it.  Personally, I want to put the time into doing it, socializing and bargaining and traveling, an Auction house kills that.  If the server develops an East Commons, joy, good for the community, that's pretty cool, and will make life a little easier for people who want to sell, but there is no reason to insert an Auction House.  The only reason anyone wants it, is because you don't want to put the time into doing it, you want the game to be about getting good deals with little work, by inserting Amazon.com into the game.  This was an awesome sandbox element to EQ, I hope they keep it alive and don't cater to those that want to spend all day camping mobs, questing, or crafting, and still be able to sell anything they want with ease.  Keep the trade aspect of the game alive, some of us enjoy doing that.  I recommended earlier actually making trader a profession I would be cool with a system like that because it doesn't kill the dream.

    No auction house will give rise to professional buyers and sellers too, people who get rich on the market and equip themselves without doing much adventuring. My daily group in the beginning of EQ would offload our bronze/fine steel/etc to a guy just to be rid of it and he'd turn around and flip it and did very well for himself. There are tons of examples like this that an auction house would not allow to happen. 

     

    An auction house would allow that to happen as well.  You just have to be smart I know players in eq2 that made thousands in real life money illegally selling all the plat they made off flipping stuff off auction houses and crafting.

    Again so many people hated the EC tunnel I was part of one of the best EQ1 guilds to play the game and no one liked it it took way to much time from what so many people want to do.  The DEVS need to find a balance allow people to do it two ways and give the incentive to the harder time consuming way.  My solution allows for both the lazy can just go buy there crap the deal lookers can go haggle at the bazaar.