picks86 said:I'm going with a firm "no". eSport games strive for balance, structure, and a very narrow high level design to keep variables under control. A good MMORPG has none of those things. To me at least, they are antithecal.
While that can be true, you are forgetting that servers can be set up and tailored to specific events without affecting any other part of the game, so it wouldn't have an impact other than attracting more attention etc.
Kilsin said:While that can be true, you are forgetting that servers can be set up and tailored to specific events without affecting any other part of the game, so it wouldn't have an impact other than attracting more attention etc.
Very true, I played on Sullon Zek (the 2nd most hardcore PvP server on EQ1 besides the temporary Discord server) for a long time. I loved the imbalanced and unique PvP there. I don't doubt PvP could be something awesome for Pantheon (in the sense of open world, etc) and I'd certainly play there. I guess when I think of eSport games I think of Dota, League, Hearthstone, etc. I don't for example consider WoW's PvP scene to be an eSport, no matter how much they try to label it as one.
I do love eSports though as some have already mentioned that most times it is PvP so unless in the future this game gets Battleground/Arenas it would be hard to do this. Now top guilds going after raid bosses is fun as well. BlizzCon used to do this with the two top raiding guilds live during their shows which was awesome but that is a one time event not really something super active that eSports require.
picks86 said:Kilsin said:While that can be true, you are forgetting that servers can be set up and tailored to specific events without affecting any other part of the game, so it wouldn't have an impact other than attracting more attention etc.
Very true, I played on Sullon Zek (the 2nd most hardcore PvP server on EQ1 besides the temporary Discord server) for a long time. I loved the imbalanced and unique PvP there. I don't doubt PvP could be something awesome for Pantheon (in the sense of open world, etc) and I'd certainly play there. I guess when I think of eSport games I think of Dota, League, Hearthstone, etc. I don't for example consider WoW's PvP scene to be an eSport, no matter how much they try to label it as one.
I am exactly the same as you and while it is highly unlikely we will enter Pantheon into the eSports arena it is interesting to see how far it has come and how it can apply itself to so many games successfully these days! :)
Aggelos said:I do love eSports though as some have already mentioned that most times it is PvP so unless in the future this game gets Battleground/Arenas it would be hard to do this. Now top guilds going after raid bosses is fun as well. BlizzCon used to do this with the two top raiding guilds live during their shows which was awesome but that is a one time event not really something super active that eSports require.
Yeah, I like it as well, it's pretty cool watching other gamers play games at the highest level for prizes and glory and we can relate to them quite easily being gamers ourselves, so I think that is where all the views and interest comes from :)
Kilsin said:Considering how big eSports is becoming, do you think there could ever be a place in eSports for MMORPGs like Pantheon? :)
In MMORPGs? yeah why not. In Pantheon? Not sure.. it entirely depends how it turns out.
Nimryl said:Kilsin said:Considering how big eSports is becoming, do you think there could ever be a place in eSports for MMORPGs like Pantheon? :)In MMORPGs? yeah why not. In Pantheon? Not sure.. it entirely depends how it turns out.
Yeah, I can't see Pantheon entering into eSports but it is interesting to see how many MMORPGs have gone that way and when you think about it, there are so many things that could be considering eSPorts, from speed runs to timed raid boss fights to PvP battles, guilds vs guilds in arena style etc.
Amsai said: I love PvP and PvE. They both can be fun. That ssid I have no love for Esports. They are ok i guess but for me its all about the game and my or my teams victory. I could care less about others watching or making money off it. I just wany to kill all the things with my friends and collect the loot. And while I realize that Pantheon will be a game, there are certain things that make a game feel to gamified (totally a word). And that can be different things to different people but for me this is one. Same with Dungeons that have been degraded into 15 min speed dungeons (Rungeons). Not fun, too gamified.
Yeah I tend to agree, it wouldn't be my thing to participate but I would probably watch if I was away from the game and couldn't login to play :)
No. Just no. Pvp in general is very dangerous in a game like this, and eSports completely incompatible. It's not just something that can be solved easily through server rule sets, either- classes have to be balanced completely differently in PvP compared to PvE. If one class's unique contributions make it overpowered in PvP, you can't really fix it without breaking it in PvE. Now, that could still be acceptable in an unbalanced PvP server so long as everyone knows up front it wouldn't be fully balanced, but it won't work in an eSport. You can try to organize events, but unless you completely break your PvE focus for balance, nobody would participate.
That's not to say MMOs and eSports are completely incompatible- I could see it working great for Crowfall, and maybe even Camelot Unchained. But it has to be designed from the ground up for PvP. PvE MMOs and PvP MMOs can both be great- but they have to be designed so differently that mixing the two just doesn't work. It's one of the big failings of most MMOs- the devs try to balance for both PvE and PvP, and always fail horribly- and if they eventually decide to focus on one, the complaints from the other side never end. I'd focus on just PvE for Pantheon, trying to balance the two won't work, and there's other great games coming for PvP while GOOD PvE is mostly gone.
Think back to Plane of Time in EQ and visualize how awesome it would be to watch two guilds racing to beat it in an eSports arena, or streamed, whatever, back when it was a grueling task.
Or imagine VT, Anguish, etc.
If Pantheon got popular enough it would be pretty awesome. The eSports organization could reach out to VR, VR makes a mirror image of all the relevant data, sets up a cloned server, and the two guilds log into those (letting the guild handle all the organizational details) and the race starts at a set time. Yea, it'd be pretty cool to watch and very cool for the players as well ... and VR gets publicity.
You wouldn't need PvP for people to watch, this is strictly PvE.
I'd watch.
How about team-oriented PvE events? Why does an e-sport necessarily need to equate to PvP? I love to watch football, soccer, and other team sports much more than I like to watch boxing. Perhaps a times dungeon run, encounter kill or whatever set goal achieved by a full group of characters. I'd love to have the ability to watch how other groups, with different make ups, handle and overcome situations. I think it might help players to see teamwork in action.
I think the PvP aspect of these competitions opens up more class balancing and other class vs class conversations that, in the long run, are toxic for a PvE based game.