https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/43ewxk/discussion_auto_attacks_how_significant_should/
Intresting topic on reddit, that I thought people on here may miss if you do not check reddit.
I perfer EQ1 syle autoattacks for the most dps. If your clicking buttons all the time, you cant engage with the group. I dont want to activetly having to dodge attacks or move around. I want my skills to be passive and work off dice rolls(raid dodges not included). If I want to play Dark Souls I will and I plan on playing DS3 when it releases but I quit GW2 and ESO, although I was good at it its not my perferred play style.
(Copy from my Reddit post - my view of the auto attack.)
I feel that they should be a very important part of the game, however I'd like to see them running at a separate pace so your skills do not interrupt the auto attack. I.e if your auto attack is intended to go off every 2.3 seconds, it should go off every 2.3 seconds, and not be reset upon using a skill like Bash or Cleave.
They've said in Pantheon they want to slow down the combat and allow people to think about the actions and skills they use, auto attacks allow for said game play, it also keeps animations playing to give a little screen interest.
Obviously some classes should be more reliant on auto attacks, usually I personally feel melee classes should be a little more focused on auto attacks and dots in general, as it allows them to manoeuvre more effectively in melee combat and not have to worry as much about lack of engagement time in an encounter.
Aich said:I perfer EQ1 syle autoattacks for the most dps. If your clicking buttons all the time, you cant engage with the group. I dont want to activetly having to dodge attacks or move around. I want my skills to be passive and work off dice rolls(raid dodges not included). If I want to play Dark Souls I will and I plan on playing DS3 when it releases but I quit GW2 and ESO, although I was good at it its not my perferred play style.
Agree totally with what you say. I think everquest one was a great system, both in its auto attack and skill system. And I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon than play guildwars 2 if i'm honest, running around in circles while your team smacks the monsters bottom, until it changes its mind and chases another team mate, so now its your turn to smack the monsters bottom like its some misbehaving creature until it rolls over and throws loot at you. >< Guildwars 2 made me miss the trinity more so than any other game.
I think autoattack should be important for everyone, including casters. A major difference in EQ from most newer MMOs, including Pantheon, is that melee classes did not have to worry about contending with a mana pool. Thus, melee had the ability to provide sustained damage, while casters were completely reliant on a resource. When you put everyone on an even playing field, I believe its necessary for every classs to be able to contribute autoattack damage, whether its with a melee weapon, a bow, or wand.
I like the EQ style autoattack. There's only one thing I dislike about it:
You try to hit Some_mob_01, but miss!
I'm not talking about the opponent dodging or parrying etc, just plain missing. Really, if my weapon skill is maxed out, and I'm not fighting mobs way above my level, then I should have a near 100% hit rate. Rather change the hit damage distribution so that "no hit" instead becomes a "low damage hit", and compensate on the higher or average hits.
Sarim said:I like the EQ style autoattack. There's only one thing I dislike about it:
You try to hit Some_mob_01, but miss!
I'm not talking about the opponent dodging or parrying etc, just plain missing. Really, if my weapon skill is maxed out, and I'm not fighting mobs way above my level, then I should have a near 100% hit rate. Rather change the hit damage distribution so that "no hit" instead becomes a "low damage hit", and compensate on the higher or average hits.
Lol well think of it like this, in golf, the ball does not move but as a new golf player I may miss hiting that ball, I guarantee it. It makes sense to miss for players with low skill or the enemeny has a higher skill that effects hit/miss.
That's why I said with maxed skill or when fighting opponents not way above my level :) Try playing EQ as a melee character with maxed weapon skills, and fight a dark blue mob. There will be lots of misses in the log!
On second thought, perhaps a good amount of these come from additional attacks like dual wield, double attack? So your main attack hits, but the extra attacks fail their dice roll and thus "miss"? If that's the case, maybe only successful extra hits should appear in the log, to prevent false impressions that your character can't hit a barn door :)
Dullahan said:I think autoattack should be important for everyone, including casters. A major difference in EQ from most newer MMOs, including Pantheon, is that melee classes did not have to worry about contending with a mana pool. Thus, melee had the ability to provide sustained damage, while casters were completely reliant on a resource. When you put everyone on an even playing field, I believe its necessary for every classs to be able to contribute autoattack damage, whether its with a melee weapon, a bow, or wand.
Well, I see your point here, but if Pantheon classes were similar to EQ, caster Auto Attack damage would have to be taken into account as well. If wizards could use a wand and do /auto attack range damage, then there spells would have had to do less damage to compensate. I wouldn't be opposed to it, as casters would have something to do when they were OOM, but, I also didn't mind them having to /med mid combat to get enough mana to cast a spell either. I suppose it would add a bit more strategy to their combat if it was worth medding for one more spell versus /wanding something to death.
And /agree Aich & Kellie
Sarim said:I like the EQ style autoattack. There's only one thing I dislike about it:
You try to hit Some_mob_01, but miss!
I'm not talking about the opponent dodging or parrying etc, just plain missing. Really, if my weapon skill is maxed out, and I'm not fighting mobs way above my level, then I should have a near 100% hit rate. Rather change the hit damage distribution so that "no hit" instead becomes a "low damage hit", and compensate on the higher or average hits.
Agreed with most that auto attack should be ... an important contributor I guess (not sure how to phrase it). I disagree with dullahan however for largely the same points that raidan brought up. In ffxi (and I feel probably everquest too) mages could auto attack but just in melee range so very few did when doing anything serious. I like there being some significant distinction between how different types of classes play and I feel the mage auto attack situation is something that really gives some extra character to mage classes. Balance aside I think I would prefer that difference be maintained (I often feel like the difference between melee, ranged, caster is insifnificant in most modern mmos).
Aich said:I perfer EQ1 syle autoattacks for the most dps. If your clicking buttons all the time, you cant engage with the group. I dont want to activetly having to dodge attacks or move around. I want my skills to be passive and work off dice rolls(raid dodges not included). If I want to play Dark Souls I will and I plan on playing DS3 when it releases but I quit GW2 and ESO, although I was good at it its not my perferred play style.
EQ had tons of great timing moments too. When to mez, when to bash, when to feign. If you're spamming skills it takes away from that. I understand people don't want to just turn auto attack on and come back 2 minutes later, but I think this is a case of "less is more".
Sarim said:That's why I said with maxed skill or when fighting opponents not way above my level :) Try playing EQ as a melee character with maxed weapon skills, and fight a dark blue mob. There will be lots of misses in the log!
On second thought, perhaps a good amount of these come from additional attacks like dual wield, double attack? So your main attack hits, but the extra attacks fail their dice roll and thus "miss"? If that's the case, maybe only successful extra hits should appear in the log, to prevent false impressions that your character can't hit a barn door :)
That would bug me so much when I was playing my ranger.
I also like the idea of having EQ style auto attacks though