First, before the discussion begins, let me throw out a few videos to demonstrate exactly what I am talking about.
Final Fantasy 14 --- Limit Break (Party-based) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e2mYic_qck
This is essentially a bar that allows for a single member of the group to use saved up energy to perform an action based on their role (DPS deal damage, Healers can heal or revive the group, Tanks have large mitigation for the entire group)
Guild Wars 2 --- Combination Moves (Self or Party Based) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INq9qEU0IcE
Abilities are basically marked as combo starters or finishers in this game. If, for example, the Elementalist in this game lays down a fire field... and a ranger fires arrows through it onto a target, they become fire arrows and inflict burning. If the elementalist lays down a water spire (Healing) and a guardian uses a blast finisher move, it causes AE Healing.
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Both of these added some fun aspects to gameplay --- Especially if we have a large spell list like EQ1, we could create some interesting combination moves and synergy between classes. As a healer, I enjoyed saving the day with a 3rd level Limit Break and reviving my entire party in a glorious golden pulse animation. I also enjoyed my Guardian in Guild Wars 2 being able to not only throw up a wall of reflection to stop projectiles from hitting my team mates, but it also functioned as something to cleanse debuffs if the arrows shot through the field and went through an ally.
If Pantheon has a large spell list like EQ1, this could create some interesting synergy between certain groups make-ups.
Is this something people would enjoy seeing in the game?
I am not expressly against a limit break type mechanic but I really didn't think it added any depth at all to the combat and it certainly didn't provide any interaction between players in combat (not to mention 95% of the time its DPS limit only). Conversely I am not a fan at all of the combo system they used because it promotes 'rotation' based combat which is something pantheon is expressly trying to not do.
I would rather see something like the skill chain / magic burst system from FFXI be a part of pantheon because it actually facilitated cooperation and group communication. For those who don't know what that is, in ffxi all weapons (yes the weapon, not class / job) got "weapon skills" (they also had a skill up system which i believe was similarly in everquest where use of weapons would develop skill with said weapons) which were abilities for that weapon type (different jobs/classes could obtain special weapon skills for certain weapons that only that job/class could obtain and all jobs/classes had a skill cap so some were better with some weapons than others). The skill chain system made it so that when two weapon skills of correct types were used in quick succession you would get bonus elemental damage done. Each of these elemental bonuses (from the chains) could be used to pull off a "magic burst" if timed correctly based on the element of the chain bonus which would add extra damage to the spell or make the spell more effective. This meant that people had to plan beforehand what skills to use to maximize the effectiveness of the chain and communicate to set it up. I think such a system fits the goals of pantheon much better.
Yeah, I was mainly referring to combos in ffxiv (as far as combos that I don't like) which are sortof just like a pre-defined rotation (must do fast blade then savage blade then rage of halone... stuff like that). Your guild wars 2 example sounds alright (though they also have sortof rotation based combos that auto cycle through 3 or so abilities in a linear fashion if I remember correctly).
Amsai said:
Supposedly VG had something similar too? Im sure I remember reading something from the devs about introducing something like this to Pantheon as well. Though that might no longer be the case?
I also remember hearing something about vanguard having that (in a comment on these forums) but I was under the impression that it was similar to the FFXIV combo system.
I would say something that allows chaining off of abilities or exploiting detrimental effects could add some interesting elements. I don't think I'd want it to be something where the team built up some bar and then could unleash something crazy. I am thinking more along the lines of Necro DoTs something, Rogue has an ability that can accelerate the damage over time or make all of the damage happen instantly. Cleric is casting a huge slow heal and the Paladin it will land on has a short duration ability that makes the first heal that lands hit everyone around them for 15% of what was healed. A Warrior has aggro on 4 mobs and the Ranger in the group can fire off a volley that does 50% more damage on mobs that are distracted/focused on someone else. A Mage's fire pet is fighting a mob and the Wizard can channel fire energy into the pet increasing it's damage shield by a significant amount for a short duration.
Basically combining abilities in such a way that an organized and well played group gets a minor advantage through seizing every opportunity to improve their efficiency but not so much so that it becomes a required and/or tired mechanic that no one appreciates and that becomes annoying to keep up with.
jezebel said:
I would say something that allows chaining off of abilities or exploiting detrimental effects could add some interesting elements. I don't think I'd want it to be something where the team built up some bar and then could unleash something crazy. I am thinking more along the lines of Necro DoTs something, Rogue has an ability that can accelerate the damage over time or make all of the damage happen instantly. Cleric is casting a huge slow heal and the Paladin it will land on has a short duration ability that makes the first heal that lands hit everyone around them for 15% of what was healed. A Warrior has aggro on 4 mobs and the Ranger in the group can fire off a volley that does 50% more damage on mobs that are distracted/focused on someone else. A Mage's fire pet is fighting a mob and the Wizard can channel fire energy into the pet increasing it's damage shield by a significant amount for a short duration.
Basically combining abilities in such a way that an organized and well played group gets a minor advantage through seizing every opportunity to improve their efficiency but not so much so that it becomes a required and/or tired mechanic that no one appreciates and that becomes annoying to keep up with.
I love this!
+1
Jezebel's idea is definitely a solid one, it would create a not so static combat system while keeping the slower pace that allows people to chat and strategize mid fight that I believe we all want. It would really keep the spirit of old EQ's combat while bringing it into 2015. Excuse me, 2017 :P
After watching the released video of combat and actual group play I thought this thread needed to pop back up.
I am wondering if people wont like the slower paced combat. I for one like some of the new in game mechanics but this does propose a few issues for contrast with the old gamers vs new. The other issues are what can the team do with the game engine.
With visual design and game play I was wondering what everyone was thinking on this one.
Ox
https://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2875/party-chain-combos Another a bit more active post worth reading too.
As for me I ve enjoyed EQ2 heroic opportunities too bad they werent developed into something more meaningfull.
In EQ auto attack was a good portion of melee DPS(a bit lower on rogues with backstab). In WoW it was on the bottom end. The more twitchy/special attacks you add, the less opportunity there is for socializing, even while smacking a Giant upside the head(or in the back). It makes the grind seem more grindy when you can't talk about other stuff or risk the "less chat, more attack" from some folks. I'm all for special attacks for melee by the way, to mirror hybrid spells. Spamming a button every second though seems like a bit too much.
Lodizal said:https://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2875/party-chain-combos Another a bit more active post worth reading too.
As for me I ve enjoyed EQ2 heroic opportunities too bad they werent developed into something more meaningfull.
Nice taking a look.
Ox