Will classes be limited to using only a handful of abilities? Like the way ESO allows a max of 6 abilities that can be swapped for a maximum of another 6 abiliites. Or will classes be able to use a very high amount of abilities at any given time? Like the way VG allowed multiple hotbars.
NoobieDoo said:
Will classes be limited to using only a handful of abilities? Like the way ESO allows a max of 6 abilities that can be swapped for a maximum of another 6 abiliites. Or will classes be able to use a very high amount of abilities at any given time? Like the way VG allowed multiple hotbars.
Classes are something that we are not quite ready to discuss yet NoobieDoo, as more information about Classes will come with the new big update, which will include one class from each archetype (Tank, Healer, Dps (Melee and Caster), CC).
I will say that you are not limited to 5-6 abilities/spells ala GW2/ESO but that is all the information I can give at this time. :)
Kilsin said:
I will say that you are not limited to 5-6 abilities/spells ala GW2/ESO but that is all the information I can give at this time. :)
I think this is a good enough answer. Like I've said before, I'm a huge supporter of Brad and his merry men. EQ1 and VG have THE BEST combat and gameplay of all the MMOs I've ever played. So I doubt Pantheon will disappoint.
ps. include the bard at launch. I actually posted somewhere else here 2 good reasons why the bard shouldn't be held off for an xpac. I am going to dig that up because I honestly believe they are really good reasons to launch with. And not just 'really good' because they are my opinion, even though my ideas and opinions are pretty frickin rad!!! ;)
Amsai said:
So next big update will have information of 4 classes? And I assume follow up updates for showcasing 2 mote sets of 4 classes then?
No, it will have some information on the five (5) that I mentioned above. We are not ready to delve deep into classes yet but with the launch of the big update we will be releasing more information on those classes that I mentioned above, but it won't be a full in depth background on them and everything they do. The classes will get much more love after we get this big update out and have a solid platform to build on.
We are just showcasing one of each Archetype (Tank, Healer, Melee & Caster DPS, CC) to show you what will be playable in the 1-10 Alpha. I still hope to set up the Class Lead program sometime after that to work on classes properly, but we will have to wait and see if that is the best option for us.
Amsai said:
Thanks Kilsin. I thought the dps part was just a place holder for a melee or nuker. But you meant one of each. Also any kind of time frame (3 months? Or 6?) On when we will get to know the classes other than the 5 for alphs? Not trying to lock you down just something in general.
You're welcome, Amsai :)
At this point in time, I do not even have a rough timeframe mate, but once the big update is released, it will be worth the wait and you will all notice things pick up more ;)
Kilsin said:
At this point in time, I do not even have a rough timeframe mate, but once the big update is released, it will be worth the wait and you will all notice things pick up more ;)
Ba da bing ba da boom :)
So am I right in assuming that there is nothing confirmed if there will or will not be a sub-class system? I only ask because the nomenclature used for certain classes is unfitting if you would not have a sub class system.
In addition to my prior concerns the Cleric description and Crusader description have thrown me off completely. Crusaders are suppose to be former Clerics however, traditionally a Cleric can be either good or evil, similarly to a crusader. That said if a crusader is capable of being morally ambiguous (non-paladin) then why bother with the "Dire Lord" class (please, please change this from Dire Lord back to Dread Lord or Shadow Knight. I appreciate the striving to be original, but it just doesn't click.)?
I hope what I just wrote makes sense. Let's discuss this further!!
Thanks,
Joe
Throatseeker
Throatseeker said:So am I right in assuming that there is nothing confirmed if there will or will not be a sub-class system? I only ask because the nomenclature used for certain classes is unfitting if you would not have a sub class system.
In addition to my prior concerns the Cleric description and Crusader description have thrown me off completely. Crusaders are suppose to be former Clerics however, traditionally a Cleric can be either good or evil, similarly to a crusader. That said if a crusader is capable of being morally ambiguous (non-paladin) then why bother with the "Dire Lord" class (please, please change this from Dire Lord back to Dread Lord or Shadow Knight. I appreciate the striving to be original, but it just doesn't click.)?
I hope what I just wrote makes sense. Let's discuss this further!!
Thanks,
Joe
Throatseeker
I would be blown away if it ended up being a multi class system in the game. I personally loved that aspect of FFXI. Being able to level multiple classes and swap your sub for different situations was a fun way of trying different things and being solo better or group better dependant on the situation. The only thing that I thought was weird about it was being able to play oppositely aligned classes on the same character. Has there ever been a mention of a multi class system anywhere though?
Amsai said: Ive brought it up several times going back to the kickstarter. However they seem pretty set on using alts. I think some of it is just EQ player preference and some of it is the "immersion" argument. Because some how having multiple classes on the same character breaks immersion. But that never made sense to me. I could say its unrealistic that people cant do multiple jobs. Anyways, it could happen but I have abandoned that fight. Too many people like alts. Im still hoping for account bound achievements though. Nothing worse than having to redo flags and access on multiple characters.
I don't think it breaks immersion as much as it's simply a worthless mechanic to have. It can also compromise the interdependence the game is based around. Consider how hybrids almost always seem OP in every game - subclassing just turns everyone into what is essentially a hybrid. I don't really want to see Rogues casting healing spells, I'd rather see classes with a variety of tools and mechanics that make them individually compelling.
I understand the arguments on both sides however, the need for roll identification and immersion must be present when building a game based on an interdependant social structure. I think a multi-class system could work if it constructed tastefully AND satisfied the lore/story of the game.
The largest problem I believe we will run into is trying to remain within the confines of the lore. We must consider if a multi-class per character ACTUALLY makes sense in this game? For instance, in Skyrim it makes complete sense for the player to have the ability to branch out into multiple roles. Why? Because there is only ONE true hero (among other symantical details) in that world and the majority of the story relies on your actions and capabilities.
If I had the time I could really dig deep but the bottom line for me is if it can be done in a common sense manner that fits the lore and isn't an absolute free-for-all then I don't see a problem with having a multi-class system or even sub-classes for that matter.
There is nothing more frustrating when the waters get unnecessarily muddied.
Please by all means continue to discuss and state your case because I enjoy reading it all!
Thanks,
Joe
Throatseeker
Every class needs a unique hook that only that class fulfills... In addition each class needs a defining mechanic that seperates it from all the other classes.
These rolls are not just archetypical but also need real flavour on a class level.
Vanguard had some great character mechanics in this regard.
One example would be the Dread Knight and how he was the best at holding agro on multiple mobs at once and how Warriors had more single target agro holding.
There was a lot of great class design in Vanguard... if you never tried a Bloodmage or a Disciple you really missed out.
I'm sure the dev's will make ways to specialize your character but I don't want to see too many "jack of all trades" classes running around.
Kiz~
The biggest upside to leveling any class you wanted on the same character was that you never had to explain on an alt who you were. Your rep good or bad was always there regardless of what you were playing. Black Mages in ffxi were basically wizards, dps spell casters. If a rdm subbed blm, it didn't allow them to suddenly become the best nukers, it worked to make the rdm stronger at its main role. You have to keep in mind that the max level was 75 and max level for sub job was 37. Warrior subbed white mage wasn't suddenly an unstoppable soloing machine either. For example, a 50 warrior subbed white mage would have access to level 25 spells. It may be a useful situational sub job to be able to solo farm or camp NMs with less downtime but it wasn't useful in a group setting. A lot of keying for gated content in ffxi was extremely time consuming, and believe it or not probably more time consuming than EQ, so it was nice to be able to access zones for leveling an alt job that you couldn't the first time around. Leveling took long enough that it wasn't very common to find people with more than 3 jobs leveled to max.
I would love to see players able to level up multiple classes on the same character, albeit with a slight change from ffxi. I never thought it made sense you could level paladin, dark knight, white mage, black mage, etc on the same character. Player character alignment should matter.
While i enjoyed FFXIV and the ability to lvl everything on one char i found it all bit gimmicky except for how they handled the gathering/crafting - this i thought was great fun.
Regarding 'combat class' i like the idea of a sub "role" system that allows as an eg you to utilise your warrior as tank or dps.....but definitely not both and not interchangable. It would be a decision to make and the pursue. A ranger could be utility based around traps/mobility impairment/buffs/distraction (to assist tank swapping or tank death moments and kiting)/wildnerness lore through curative aid (out of combat) or it could be dps ranged focus with/or without pet with melee back up but less utility...
Racial lockouts of certain classes would of course still apply but you could have more variety
Kilsin said:NoobieDoo said:
Will classes be limited to using only a handful of abilities? Like the way ESO allows a max of 6 abilities that can be swapped for a maximum of another 6 abiliites. Or will classes be able to use a very high amount of abilities at any given time? Like the way VG allowed multiple hotbars.
Classes are something that we are not quite ready to discuss yet NoobieDoo, as more information about Classes will come with the new big update, which will include one class from each archetype (Tank, Healer, Dps (Melee and Caster), CC).
I will say that you are not limited to 5-6 abilities/spells ala GW2/ESO but that is all the information I can give at this time. :)
How exactly does that work with the Living Codex (https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/living_codex/)? It says you can memorize 10 abilities, are there basic abilities not tied to this you can use anytime? Or was are we actually just limited to a few more than the 5-6 example?
Eldryth said:Kilsin said:NoobieDoo said:
Will classes be limited to using only a handful of abilities? Like the way ESO allows a max of 6 abilities that can be swapped for a maximum of another 6 abiliites. Or will classes be able to use a very high amount of abilities at any given time? Like the way VG allowed multiple hotbars.
Classes are something that we are not quite ready to discuss yet NoobieDoo, as more information about Classes will come with the new big update, which will include one class from each archetype (Tank, Healer, Dps (Melee and Caster), CC).
I will say that you are not limited to 5-6 abilities/spells ala GW2/ESO but that is all the information I can give at this time. :)How exactly does that work with the Living Codex (https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/living_codex/)? It says you can memorize 10 abilities, are there basic abilities not tied to this you can use anytime? Or was are we actually just limited to a few more than the 5-6 example?
I was just pointing out that it is different to GW2/ESO and we will have more information on it later but for now, we don't want to go into details on the mechanics and finer points as information on this will be released in time.
Kilsin said:I was just pointing out that it is different to GW2/ESO and we will have more information on it later but for now, we don't want to go into details on the mechanics and finer points as information on this will be released in time.
It's always time with you Kilsin! ya big tease :) i am learning your ways....