Forums » The Monk

Monk Races

    • 46 posts
    February 10, 2015 6:48 AM PST

    Over recent months we have brain stormed quite a bit on the monk class and what we would like to see implemented as class features etc. I would like to switch gears here for a second and discuss potential monk/race combinations. 

    So what race would you like play a monk as!?  Me personally I am a human elitist! ;) What are your thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Joe/Throat


    This post was edited by Throatseeker at March 11, 2016 8:31 AM PST
    • 466 posts
    February 10, 2015 9:06 AM PST

    Well when you eliminate everything that doesn't really fit, you are left with humans.

    The only exception I Wonder about are the Archai.

    Even if they are described as having elemental ties what would orient them rather to magical beings, they are also described as beings of poise and valor.

    These latter don't really contradict a monk class.

     

    Now the defining feature of a monk being that he is an (un)holy man, I don't know enough about the Archai to imagine whether the existence of monasteries dedicated to meditation and martial prowess makes sense for their culture or not.

    • 46 posts
    February 10, 2015 9:16 AM PST
    Deadshade said:

    Well when you eliminate everything that doesn't really fit, you are left with humans.

    The only exception I Wonder about are the Archai.

    Even if they are described as having elemental ties what would orient them rather to magical beings, they are also described as beings of poise and valor.

    These latter don't really contradict a monk class.

     

    Now the defining feature of a monk being that he is an (un)holy man, I don't know enough about the Archai to imagine whether the existence of monasteries dedicated to meditation and martial prowess makes sense for their culture or not.

    Quite honestly I am not too sure myself. What I don't want to see is something like the release of Kunark making Human Monks inferior to Iksar ones. Those kinds of changes later in the game seem rather unfair due to the fact that ONLY monks could be humans in the beginning! I would rather see Monk start with one to two maybe three race choices in the beginning to eliminate any sort of racial elitism. I hope that we don't run into the issue that at end game raiding parties only want a certain race/class combination. If a race is able to be a class then make the race plausible for the class as a whole not just here and there. Is what I am saying making any sense or ringing any bells? 


    This post was edited by Throatseeker at March 11, 2016 8:32 AM PST
    • 289 posts
    February 11, 2015 6:45 AM PST

    I am of the opinion that we need to know more about what the class abilities/roles would be before we can decide what races.  It always frustrated me in EQ1 that a barbarian, which was just a larger human, could NOT be a monk.  A human is a human is a human after all. The barbarians being monks made fantastic sense to me because they started out with more strength and stamina than their qeynos/freeport relatives.  After a lot of thought on this over the year I have been following Pantheon I am of the opinion that the monk class should be available to the Elves,  the Humans, the Archai, the Dark Myr and the Ogres.

    The Elves would be monks based on their long life spans and their ability to see the big picture.  They are more dextrous/agile than most other races and they already prefer to move with as little encumberance as possible.

     

    The humans because humans are the most adaptable of the races, they are known as the general/utility race in fantasy games because they can normally be any class.

     

    The Archai to me spend a large amount of their lifetime focused on specific goals and achievements. This just screams monk class to me, being able to stay focused and steady regardless of what is thrown at you or put in front of you.

     

    The Dark Myr would make sense to me for a monk because of the grace and smoothness of moving through the water.  The deeper the water the stronger the Dark Myr because of the denisty and pressure of the water.  Monks to me have always been partially acrobatic in design so it would make sense for the Myr race to be monks because of the acrobatics that would be involved in under-water fighting.

     

    The ogre race to me should have been included in the EQ monk because who says you have to be book smart to be a monk.  An Ogre has a single mindedness about them that most monks seem to be striving for.  They are able to put aside discomforts while they are pursuing a goal/task.

    • 46 posts
    February 12, 2015 4:39 PM PST
    Sogotp said:

    I am of the opinion that we need to know more about what the class abilities/roles would be before we can decide what races.  It always frustrated me in EQ1 that a barbarian, which was just a larger human, could NOT be a monk.  A human is a human is a human after all. The barbarians being monks made fantastic sense to me because they started out with more strength and stamina than their qeynos/freeport relatives.  After a lot of thought on this over the year I have been following Pantheon I am of the opinion that the monk class should be available to the Elves,  the Humans, the Archai, the Dark Myr and the Ogres.

    The Elves would be monks based on their long life spans and their ability to see the big picture.  They are more dextrous/agile than most other races and they already prefer to move with as little encumberance as possible.

     

    The humans because humans are the most adaptable of the races, they are known as the general/utility race in fantasy games because they can normally be any class.

     

     

    The Archai to me spend a large amount of their lifetime focused on specific goals and achievements. This just screams monk class to me, being able to stay focused and steady regardless of what is thrown at you or put in front of you.

     

    The Dark Myr would make sense to me for a monk because of the grace and smoothness of moving through the water.  The deeper the water the stronger the Dark Myr because of the denisty and pressure of the water.  Monks to me have always been partially acrobatic in design so it would make sense for the Myr race to be monks because of the acrobatics that would be involved in under-water fighting.

     

    The ogre race to me should have been included in the EQ monk because who says you have to be book smart to be a monk.  An Ogre has a single mindedness about them that most monks seem to be striving for.  They are able to put aside discomforts while they are pursuing a goal/task.

    Well for starters you can pretty much justify any race to be any class from a certain point of view. You have to consider the lore of the land first and foremost simply because even though it may make some sense to you that is not exactly what the developers had in mind. 

     

    Okay Barbarians I can almost understand where you are coming from, however Barbarians were a crass commune of brutes. Barbarians were not intended to be highly civilized and refined. Ogres?? No, no and no...silliness! Elves? Okay I can give that one to you I really have no rebuttal for Elves not being monks..

     

    With our current races I could see Elves and Humans. Dark Myr are waterfolk and Archai are magical/elemental beings (wouldn't believe it fit too well with a spiritual class).  I think it is quite a stretch to relate the fluid movement of water to justify a water race being martial practitioners.  

     

    ALL THAT SAID! I seriously wouldn't mind seeing what lore is developed and where exactly this class falls within the structure of Terminus! Whether it be exclusive to a specific race OR spread among the many races. I am eager to test the waters for sure. 


    This post was edited by Throatseeker at February 12, 2015 4:40 PM PST
    • 695 posts
    February 12, 2015 11:17 PM PST

    I would think The Dark Myr will be something akin between a Bloodgill Goblin & some sort of meerfolk..? (Troglodyte?)

     

    Unless VRI gives the race a more sinister lore and the Race has a tail and mimics a griffin's tail, or cockatrace, etc.

     

     

    • 72 posts
    February 13, 2016 2:56 AM PST

    I agree monk shouldnt be open ogres! Monk requires a certain mindset first and foremost, a race that arent mentally strong to me doesnt fit the role!  Pure physical str isnt the prime stat of a monk. It is important yes but not what defines a monk. Ogres? what next? you'll be asking for Halfling or gnomes! =P

    human, elves, dark myr and Archai would make sense and could fit IMHO.

    • 1762 posts
    February 14, 2016 12:46 PM PST

    The obvious choices at this point would be human and Archai. I'll be interested to see if the Skar can become monks.

    • 46 posts
    February 15, 2016 5:54 PM PST

    Krixus said:

    The obvious choices at this point would be human and Archai. I'll be interested to see if the Skar can become monks.

    Not sure how I feel about Archai but Humans, Elves and potentially Skar? Sure I can dig it. 

    Frankly, I know nothing of the Skar but I have a feeling they will parallel the Iksar considerably. 

    Thanks,

    Joe/Throat

    • 72 posts
    February 15, 2016 6:00 PM PST

    Throatseeker said:

    Krixus said:

    The obvious choices at this point would be human and Archai. I'll be interested to see if the Skar can become monks.

    Not sure how I feel about Archai but Humans, Elves and potentially Skar? Sure I can dig it. 

    Frankly, I know nothing of the Skar but I have a feeling they will parallel the Iksar considerably. 

    Thanks,

    Joe/Throat

     

    Yeah, you're probably right comparing the Skar to the Iksars... Even the names are similar!

     

    Quoted from their racial lore!

     

    On the Skar

     

    If there was an opposite to any good thing in every race, the Skar would stand alone in the extreme. Suicidally vicious, tribal and short-sighted, the Skar fear only their "Nine God" and are there fervent only in their hatred. A ravenous desire to consume fits with their thin, predatorial size and build, and they attack to overwhelm quickly, lacking exceptional endurance. Their role on the stage of Terminus has the most uncertainty, for their battles rage as much within Skargol as outside of it

    • 46 posts
    February 15, 2016 6:09 PM PST

    Senadin said:

    Throatseeker said:

    Krixus said:

    The obvious choices at this point would be human and Archai. I'll be interested to see if the Skar can become monks.

    Not sure how I feel about Archai but Humans, Elves and potentially Skar? Sure I can dig it. 

    Frankly, I know nothing of the Skar but I have a feeling they will parallel the Iksar considerably. 

    Thanks,

    Joe/Throat

     

    Yeah, you're probably right comparing the Skar to the Iksars... Even the names are similar!

     

    Quoted from their racial lore!

     

    On the Skar

     

    If there was an opposite to any good thing in every race, the Skar would stand alone in the extreme. Suicidally vicious, tribal and short-sighted, the Skar fear only their "Nine God" and are there fervent only in their hatred. A ravenous desire to consume fits with their thin, predatorial size and build, and they attack to overwhelm quickly, lacking exceptional endurance. Their role on the stage of Terminus has the most uncertainty, for their battles rage as much within Skargol as outside of it

     

    After a quick read through Archai and Skar I would definitely conclude that Archai is very plausible and Skar should never be able to be a monk. Hehe

    • 144 posts
    February 22, 2016 4:26 PM PST

    I have played dwarven monk in every game that has ever allowed me to, and I hope this one will as well... even though I doubt they let me if EQ is any indication.  Tbh I don't really see why.  They have dex that allows them to be rogues, str and stam which allows them to be good warriors, and they are always good on wisdom for priests and paladins.  To me it would make perfect sense that you would blend a rogue with a priest and come up with a monk.

    • 12 posts
    February 25, 2016 9:14 PM PST

    Why is there a clear assumption here that monks must be good?

     

    I have no issues with a Skar monk that devoted to hatred and extermination and is geared around rapid explosive combat.

     

    Maybe it's a western thing?  You read lots of old Asian legends/stories and there are plenty of people who are single-mindedly focused on power and will crush anything to get what they need.

     

    Just seems like the monks would be a fringe cult in worship of the Nine God to me.

    • 144 posts
    February 26, 2016 5:31 AM PST

    IndecentMonk said:

    Why is there a clear assumption here that monks must be good?

    I hadn't even noticed that.  Iksar could be monks in EQ, so I doubt they are afraid to give a race the ability based purely on alignment.  Besides, whenever you see somebody in a martial arts movie, there is always an evil guy that also knows martial arts.  I guess that depends on lore.  I really find it hard to believe that monks wouldn't train someone simply because of their race.  Especially the "good" monks.  I guess the same could be true for any race, though.  I would think if the race could be rogues or warriors, monks should be an option as well as a matter of principle.

    • 46 posts
    March 11, 2016 7:36 AM PST

    I would argue that the nature of the Skar is what prohibits them from the Monk class, since they lack the necesarry discipline by being too animalistic and tribal (broad assumption of course). In addition, I feel that a Dwarven Monk would stray quite a ways from a "traditional lore" stance but I suppose I am willing to see what they come up with. When we start throwing races at classes it starts to lose it's flavor for me. 

    Just out of curiosity what games exactly have allowed you to play a Dwarven Monk with the exception of Everquest 2 post KOS and Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons? 

    Thanks,

    Joe/Throat

    • 298 posts
    March 20, 2016 7:54 PM PDT

    I want Gnome Monk

    • 19 posts
    May 8, 2016 8:37 AM PDT

    On the Skar, the "short sighted"ness and lower stamina suggests to me that they'd not really practice the discipline neccessary to be a Monk.

    At least that's how I'd interpret their racial description.

     

     

    • 144 posts
    May 17, 2016 8:09 AM PDT

    Throatseeker said:

    Just out of curiosity what games exactly have allowed you to play a Dwarven Monk with the exception of Everquest 2 post KOS and Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons? 

    DDO, EQ2 eventually, various pen and paper games including D&D, WoW, NWN2, BG, BG2...etc... Most of the games I do recognize, follow DnD rules.  I don't really understand why race restrictions are such a popular item in many games.  I understand if there is an actual reason (like dwarves aren't typically mages because they are naturally magic resistant).  But not all martial artists are shaolin monks... there are many that might even be considered evil.  So why not a monk that has trouble controlling his emotions like Skar?

    The only thing mundane race restrictions do is make someone who would play a certain combo have to choose a different one, and therefor create an immediate separation between him and who he really wanted his character to be.  That loss of connection with characters leads to players who are not invested into the toons they create... which contributes to players not caring about the world and its other players (just one of many reasons i know).

    Now that said, I do like that different races start with different stats.  If you have a gnome monk, he's not going to be a strong as a human... but he might be better at picking locks or dexterity based items.  I played an Erudite Paladin in EQ... I know all about gimped racial stats... and that's fine... but there is nothing that suggests a certain race could not be taught unless you can give a physical or mental reason why he would simply not be able to perform the abilities... and a base fighter class like monk really has none.

    Honestly the only reason I never played a monk in EQ was that I hated humans... and was already heavily invested in a toon by the time Kunark came out.


    This post was edited by Rubezahl at May 17, 2016 8:11 AM PDT
    • 19 posts
    May 17, 2016 5:42 PM PDT

    I can easily see most races doing quite well with various martial arts styles.  Certainly a Dwarf would be a great Judo master, or an Ogre would dominate as a more sumo based martial artist.
    But I think we need to remember that there's more to monks than just a fighting style.  And I personally feel that monks are typically defined in a very particular way of fighting, behaving,
    and outlook.  Nope, not all good, but... all similiar in many ways.

    Now if they were going to develop a very detailed (I know that's not the case) martial arts system where we chose how our styles developed : speed over impact, endurance based, etc
    I could very much see how interesting various race benefits/ traits could affect a martial style. 

    I figure rule nothing out, but I guess I'd be surprised if all class choices were open to all race choices.  And I think that not going that route could open up some interesting gameplay, especially
    if there's ever expansions that focus on deeper development of various races and their more specialized characteristics.  Elven Warden's, Elven Sword Dancer's or the like.  Dwarven Battlerager's, etc

    I personally prefer strong game flavor, so each race celebrated for it's differences & what it has to offer to me is much preferrable to anyone can be anything blandness.

     

    • 238 posts
    June 21, 2016 5:53 PM PDT

    I would really have to see the attributes/racial abilities before choosing a race. I like to min/max as much as possible.

    • 172 posts
    August 9, 2016 10:18 AM PDT

    Monk's Through longstanding discipline and unwavering obedience to ancient teachings, the Monk wields their mind and body as a devastating, holistic weapon against their enemies.

     

    Scar = If there was an opposite to any good thing in every race, the Skar would stand alone in the extreme. Suicidally vicious, tribal and short-sighted, the Skar fear only their "Nine God" and are there fervent only in their hatred. A ravenous desire to consume fits with their thin, predatorial size and build, and they attack to overwhelm quickly, lacking exceptional endurance. Their role on the stage of Terminus has the most uncertainty, for their battles rage as much within Skargol as outside of it

    • 87 posts
    September 7, 2016 11:07 PM PDT

    A Dwarven monk would be amazing! I want to play her as a straight-up pugilist, interested in holds, grapples, throws, punching, kicking, biting, elbowing and kneeing her way through life.

    • 61 posts
    September 16, 2016 10:22 AM PDT
    What is wrong with a gnome monk how come one couldn't break from the mold of being a tinkerer and head down a spiritual path of enlightenment? Little people are people too!!
    • 172 posts
    September 16, 2016 10:35 AM PDT

    Lodgedogg said: What is wrong with a gnome monk how come one couldn't break from the mold of being a tinkerer and head down a spiritual path of enlightenment? Little people are people too!!

     

    With all the enlightenment a gnome would never kick higher than 2' 

    Gnomes are good for one thing punting...

    • 61 posts
    September 16, 2016 1:09 PM PDT
    But your shins would be hurting