Forums » The Enchanter

Enchanter Mezz Mechanics

    • 858 posts
    September 29, 2016 12:40 AM PDT

    Nephretiti said:

    Still no.  As the caster of the spell you KNOW what's coming.  You know all about the spell.  You know when it works and what it works on.  It should never EVER affect you as the caster.  This does not make it the OP spell you seem to think it is.  Mobs can still resist.  Some mobs may even reflect it right back at you - which is not the same as casting it on yourself.  Some mobs will be affected by the spell - but the duration of the spell will be greatly shortened.  Trust me - there is no magic silver bullet when it comes to mezzing.  By making it possible to affect yourself you would pretty much much this class worthless.

     

    Healers wont accidently fail a spell and heal the mobs.  There was a recent fix put in specifically because Wizzies were blowing themselves up with a fireball cast too close.  It was decided that this was not really a good idea.

     

    On the other hand - I could imagine an Ogre trying the spell out for the first time...

     

    Gurd:  "What dis spell do?" as he points his fingers at his own head....

    Haha, i like the ogre scenario :p

    I stll think for the purpose of preventing it being OP of the spell and i understand how you think through resists etc that wouldnt be the case, just remember the caster who can be hit by his own spell also has his own chance to resist.  If you dont dig being hit by your own spell types maybe stacking up some nice +magic resist gear would be a better. I personaly just dont experience enough resisting in most games including eq to realy be bothered by it if you have a spell that in a few seconds can lock down every single mob within a smal dungeon room wth no potential consequence, lets say you have 4 mobs in a room, they are all coming for you as you triggered agro accidently, you cast AoE mez on them and maybe 1 resists, to an enchanter thats a cake walk to rectify so expecting resists to reduce the OP of the spell is not likely to be a solid enough consequence for a spell that is so powerful, worst case scenario all 4 resist, its still potentialy just 1 more AoE cast to lock them all down and you can breath easy... naa its just to OP i feel, to me Mez is a way to powerful spell to be able to throw it around without the thought of danger.  I also understand what your saying from a RolePlay (or whatever catagory it comes under) perspective you would like to be able to vsualise the enchanter knowing the spell is iminent and blocking it or somthing, but i think once again with this spell and the fact that it is tottering on being massvely over powered in the circumstance of this particular spell the (i'm just going to call it RP) RP value of the spell need sto be given less priority than the risk v reward nature of it through self mezzing.

    Re: the wizard change to AoE damage htting themselves, thats a good argument to make to point out the direction of the devs, but... we stll are not 100% sure if that was more of a PBAOE issue or a targeted AoE issue. I would like to see any class that can (if accidently targeting them selves or if in the radius of their own AoE not PBAoE obviously) be hit and have their own chance to resist etc.  I am very against AoE becoming too powerful in general in MMO's, it just really turns every encounter into a round em up and AoE them all down kind of game, CC loses its need (which is why I think its almost non existant in many mmos), Single target dps players start to become a waste of a group space and lastly we will have people locking down a ton of mobs, raining AoE on them, locking them down again, raining AoE on them... That was a clever thing that some forward thinking players came up with in EQ1 originally and power to them, but now it is well known, it can be and will be too easly abused.

    I completely understand that my s different to others, i want the game to be hard not only from mobs and other players but also managing your own skills and the danger that comes with wielding great power.

    Maybe Kilsin can chime in on any knowledge of AoE being able to hit player in range or not?  Probably too early to reveal, maybe just some clarification on that self hitting wizard AoE fix that was mentioned in the newsletter?

     


    This post was edited by Hokanu at September 29, 2016 12:43 AM PDT
    • 580 posts
    February 1, 2017 2:17 PM PST

    What I'd like to see for chanter mezzs:

    1 AoE mezz ability - 3 second cast, 12 second duration, 60 second cooldown

    1 ST Mezz - 6 second cast, 45 second duration, no cooldown

    1 Quick mezz - 1 second cast, 20 second duration, 45 sec cooldown, higher mana cost

    This way we have quick casting mezzs at our disposal when things go dire but they would have to be used wisely and would have big downsides. I don't want to see people able to pull 20+ mobs and chain mezz. There needs to be a downside to fast casts and at no point should any aoe mezz be chainable. Stuns should follow the same suit with long cooldowns that prevent the chaining ability. Make us choose when to use things and not use them. Not only does it seperate the good players from the bad, it increases the difficulty of the content while forcing people to be smarter about the pulls. 

    • 2 posts
    February 4, 2017 10:33 PM PST

    I like the idea of one mez and one charm however when broken the mobs efficiency is reduced for a few seconds as if waking from a coma

    • 4 posts
    February 5, 2017 1:04 PM PST

    I feel like spells should improve as we level up, whether it's the same spells or by getting stronger versions of a spell.  It gives you a sense of progress to be getting better over time.  I don't like the idea of level caps on spells per se, at least not hard level caps.  One of the interesting things about casters in the original EQ was that you sometimes would want to use lower level versions of a spell because it was more mana efficient, or had a lower cast time, such that you might use a faster AOE mez that wasn't the longest duration one you knew as your emergency stop in order to buy the time to hit things with a slower casting, longer duration single target mez.

    One thing I liked a lot from some other games was the ability to modify my character's powers to some degree of customization, like with Runes and some of the older talents in WoW, or enhancements in City of Heroes, or some of the Alternate Advancement from EQ.  If I'm dreaming, I'd like to see our spells each have 1 to 4 "slots" in the spellbook, that we could apply runes or gems or something to.  And then those runes or gems modified the spell in ways like: "casts faster" or "costs less mana" or "affects more targets in a wider area" or "lasts longer."  But the ideal would be that no spell or power could have all of the modifiers on it you'd want - you'd have to pick and choose.

    To get onto the topic of mechanics... I'd say let's consider many different kinds of crowd control, and maybe make some or all of them part of the tool box for enchanters.  I'm not going to get into spell cast times, durations, or costs - those are balance details that we're just too early for.  Rather, here are some of my ideas for various control mechanics and powers that can give a variety of tools with the theme of enchantments and illusions.  Ideally, this would give enough depth to the number and types of controls available that no enemies would ever be made completely immune to all of them:

    Dominate:  This is the traditional Charm from EQ that converts an NPC into your pet for some duration.  A dominated target can be controlled and given orders via the Pet UI.  IMO, Dominated enemies should have periodic checks to resist and break out of domination.  

    Confuse:  This control causes NPCs to attack each other instead of players.  Confused enemies cannot be directly controlled by the player, and will attack the closest player they can detect if no NPCs are available.  Attacking a confused enemy can cause it to recognize the player as an enemy and attack them.  

    Decoy:  Create a decoy target for NPCs to attack.  Decoys are illusionary pets that do not deal any damage, may or may not take damage, may or may not be controllable or able to move (there could easily be an all of the above for multiple spell lines here), but would use taunt skills to attract NPC attention away from players.

    Paralyze:  Completely stops an NPC, rendering them unable to move or act.  Paralyzed NPCs can be attacked, and paralyze isn't broken by damage, though potentially its duration could be reduced by damage.  This might be too powerful of an effect to make an AOE spell line for, but there could be lines that do and don't degrade with damage, for example.  Very short duration Paralyzes are often called Stuns, or in some cases, Trip or Knock-down.

    Stasis:  Completely stops an NPC, rendering them unable to move or act. NPCs in stasis cannot be affected by anything external, they shouldn't regen health or mana, and the duration of any effects on them should be paused.

    Fascinate:  Fascinated NPCs cannot take actions, but can still move (possibly at a reduced speed).  Fascinated NPCs can counterattack if attacked, then return to being fascinated.  Being attacked would reduce the remaining duration of a fascinate.

    Sleep:  The "mez" everyone from EQ would be familiar with.  NPCs do not act or move, but sleep is immediately broken on damage.

    Fear:  Forces the NPC to continually run away from the closest player.  A well-known mechanic from EQ.

    Cower:  Forces the NPC to cower in place unless attacked.  When attacked, cowering NPCs move away from the attacker for a time before starting to cower again.  A modification on fear that may be more useful in many situations.

    Displacement:  Something that moves an NPC against its will, such as knocking it away, or dragging it forward.  I've played some games where you can teleport targets way and into the air so that they take falling damage.

    So, my biggest concern is running into CC immune enemies on a regular basis.  I hope that making a lot of different kinds of CC would mitigate against that, and would just plain be more interesting and fun rather than relying overly much on the Sleep/Mez types!


    This post was edited by Kilsin at February 5, 2017 3:55 PM PST
    • 32 posts
    February 7, 2017 5:56 AM PST

    FluxVector said:

    One thing I liked a lot from some other games was the ability to modify my character's powers to some degree of customization, like with Runes and some of the older talents in WoW, or enhancements in City of Heroes, or some of the Alternate Advancement from EQ.  If I'm dreaming, I'd like to see our spells each have 1 to 4 "slots" in the spellbook, that we could apply runes or gems or something to.  And then those runes or gems modified the spell in ways like: "casts faster" or "costs less mana" or "affects more targets in a wider area" or "lasts longer."  But the ideal would be that no spell or power could have all of the modifiers on it you'd want - you'd have to pick and choose.

    There is such a thing already planned. Check out the Living Codex.

    • 34 posts
    May 5, 2017 8:51 AM PDT

    I really liked the way EQ1 handled the enchanters and their spell list.  The only truely known time that a mez lasted was the Dire Charm, which was forever.  I feel that all the mez spells should have a general amount of time they should last but depending on the level of the mob, intelligence of the mob, class of mob, etc.. the spell could break earlier.  Also liked that the enchanters had an AOE short mez spell just in case 3 or 4 baddies got pulled...AOE mez then mez 3 of them, so much fun.  Hopefully we get something similar to the different levels of clarity as well as slow and alacrity in this game.  

    From what I have seen so far from this game looks like they have a great group of folks making a great game the right way....I'm all in!

     

    • 54 posts
    May 5, 2017 3:54 PM PDT

    Zaketh said:

    fazool said:

    One thing I proposed (and was glad to see get some EQ discussion traction) was a slow wake up......when a mob breaks mezz, they are a little disoriented.  They don't go from Mezz back to 100% offense - they sort of come out of a fog first.

     

     

     

    I do like that idea and you could also make it so the higher the intelligence of the mob the less of a slow wake it would have.

     

    I can see the reasoning, and tbh it makes sense, but I don't like it. Seems like it would make things a bit too easy. The only way I could see that being acceptable is a. If it were very short duration debuff, b. The mob would sort of enage after it faded, incrased atk speed/dmg, but also for a short duration.

    • 1646 posts
    May 7, 2017 2:38 PM PDT

    CashCow said:

    I really liked the way EQ1 handled the enchanters and their spell list.  The only truely known time that a mez lasted was the Dire Charm, which was forever.  I feel that all the mez spells should have a general amount of time they should last but depending on the level of the mob, intelligence of the mob, class of mob, etc.. the spell could break earlier.  Also liked that the enchanters had an AOE short mez spell just in case 3 or 4 baddies got pulled...AOE mez then mez 3 of them, so much fun.  Hopefully we get something similar to the different levels of clarity as well as slow and alacrity in this game.  

    From what I have seen so far from this game looks like they have a great group of folks making a great game the right way....I'm all in!

     

    I see what your getting at but Dire Charm wasn't a mez but a Charm line spell which had you take control of the npc as for Mez is where you made the npc not able to take any action as if it were asleep or in a trance.

    • 3 posts
    March 4, 2018 7:30 PM PST

    FluxVector said:

    To get onto the topic of mechanics... I'd say let's consider many different kinds of crowd control, and maybe make some or all of them part of the tool box for enchanters.  I'm not going to get into spell cast times, durations, or costs - those are balance details that we're just too early for.  Rather, here are some of my ideas for various control mechanics and powers that can give a variety of tools with the theme of enchantments and illusions.  Ideally, this would give enough depth to the number and types of controls available that no enemies would ever be made completely immune to all of them:

    Dominate:  This is the traditional Charm from EQ that converts an NPC into your pet for some duration.  A dominated target can be controlled and given orders via the Pet UI.  IMO, Dominated enemies should have periodic checks to resist and break out of domination.  

    Confuse:  This control causes NPCs to attack each other instead of players.  Confused enemies cannot be directly controlled by the player, and will attack the closest player they can detect if no NPCs are available.  Attacking a confused enemy can cause it to recognize the player as an enemy and attack them.  

    Decoy:  Create a decoy target for NPCs to attack.  Decoys are illusionary pets that do not deal any damage, may or may not take damage, may or may not be controllable or able to move (there could easily be an all of the above for multiple spell lines here), but would use taunt skills to attract NPC attention away from players.

    Paralyze:  Completely stops an NPC, rendering them unable to move or act.  Paralyzed NPCs can be attacked, and paralyze isn't broken by damage, though potentially its duration could be reduced by damage.  This might be too powerful of an effect to make an AOE spell line for, but there could be lines that do and don't degrade with damage, for example.  Very short duration Paralyzes are often called Stuns, or in some cases, Trip or Knock-down.

    Stasis:  Completely stops an NPC, rendering them unable to move or act. NPCs in stasis cannot be affected by anything external, they shouldn't regen health or mana, and the duration of any effects on them should be paused.

    Fascinate:  Fascinated NPCs cannot take actions, but can still move (possibly at a reduced speed).  Fascinated NPCs can counterattack if attacked, then return to being fascinated.  Being attacked would reduce the remaining duration of a fascinate.

    Sleep:  The "mez" everyone from EQ would be familiar with.  NPCs do not act or move, but sleep is immediately broken on damage.

    Fear:  Forces the NPC to continually run away from the closest player.  A well-known mechanic from EQ.

    Cower:  Forces the NPC to cower in place unless attacked.  When attacked, cowering NPCs move away from the attacker for a time before starting to cower again.  A modification on fear that may be more useful in many situations.

    Displacement:  Something that moves an NPC against its will, such as knocking it away, or dragging it forward.  I've played some games where you can teleport targets way and into the air so that they take falling damage.

    So, my biggest concern is running into CC immune enemies on a regular basis.  I hope that making a lot of different kinds of CC would mitigate against that, and would just plain be more interesting and fun rather than relying overly much on the Sleep/Mez types!

    I like this idea

    Different types of mezz mecanics for differents situations

    Thumbs up :)

    • 157 posts
    March 12, 2018 2:26 PM PDT

    How about a Viral Mezz? This would be a higher level maintained spell with a fairly large initial mana cost plus x mana per tick. It would mezz any mezzable mob that comes within 3-5 meters of the target for 25-30 seconds up to a certain amount of mobs. Could possibly be cast on PC or NPC?


    This post was edited by Keiiek at March 12, 2018 2:30 PM PDT