The style change, for me it is like:
Being promised an Audi R8 and getting an Audi RS4; same engine, different beast.
Being promised a 4 tier wedding cake and being give a christmas cake; same content, just less.
Being promised a beach and getting a sandpit.
Being promised day, getting night.
Being promised the universe and getting human stupidity (both are infinite - Mr. Einstein).
Being promised Alien, getting Pikachu.
I'm sure you can to better and funnier...
If we get an actual game in two years instead of 10 years it will be worth it. The only way they are likely to make many of the longer-term supporters accept the change is to be more forthcoming about their internal objectives for the timing of, at a minimum, alpha, and what this change has done to speed it up. If anything. At the risk of missing any date they mention just as previous dates have all been missed.
IMO:
If they were shooting for a launch 2 years from today (goal: october 4, 2025), and alpha started today (october 4, 2023), how long would alpha be, and how long would beta be? One year each? Should beta start on October 4, 2024?
What time-spent ratio of pre-alpha to alpha+beta should QA require, utilize or need, in order to reach a polished state for launch, in your opinion, dorotea?
What core, mechanical, primary or distinguishing game features should be adjustable during alpha & beta to ensure their target demographic is retained and sustains the game, post launch, when historically, such feature changes typically result in fewer subscribers? LAS? Class balance? Combat role balancing? Non-Combat role balancing? TTK? XP Rates? Banking? Group-required content? Solo content? Auction House? Player Housing? Economic design? Deities? Factions? Non-combat game loops? What features would be fair game to overhaul, change, add, or remove during alpha & beta?
If you go with some definitions of beta, it becomes very.. risky.. to make large adjustments to the game at that phase, because customers expect very few feature changes from beta to launch (and beyond). If history is any indication, post-launch changes in this design space are very poorly received.
Unless Alpha and Beta will be less than one year, each? :)
dorotea said:If we get an actual game in two years instead of 10 years it will be worth it. The only way they are likely to make many of the longer-term supporters accept the change is to be more forthcoming about their internal objectives for the timing of, at a minimum, alpha, and what this change has done to speed it up. If anything. At the risk of missing any date they mention just as previous dates have all been missed.
2 years, really? When they are still missing half the classes; 3 races that haven't even been seen yet (Skar, Dark Myr and Archai); or any actual content outside of Thronefast let alone any content on the 2 unseen-to-date continents of Reignfall and Whitethaw. You think they will get all that done in 2 years?
Vandraad said:dorotea said:If we get an actual game in two years instead of 10 years it will be worth it. The only way they are likely to make many of the longer-term supporters accept the change is to be more forthcoming about their internal objectives for the timing of, at a minimum, alpha, and what this change has done to speed it up. If anything. At the risk of missing any date they mention just as previous dates have all been missed.
2 years, really? When they are still missing half the classes; 3 races that haven't even been seen yet (Skar, Dark Myr and Archai); or any actual content outside of Thronefast let alone any content on the 2 unseen-to-date continents of Reignfall and Whitethaw. You think they will get all that done in 2 years?
Unless the truth is that they've known about the art style change for a while and the reason they didn't complete those races is because they never had any intention of creating them in the old art style anyway. Did they ever actually say, we are just starting out on the new art style as of "date"?
Maybe they've been working on the art style swap for a while and in the background were already working on those other zones and races in the new art style and couldn't show anyone because ... well ... it was a new art style.
BamBam: Maybe after some compeating games like Ashes of Creation has shown high quallity realism grafics. VR had to differantiate them selfs because it was impossible to achive same level. And if they would be compared 1 to 1 they would clearly have the weaker produkt.
I would not say the new style is unique enough to differentiate themselves from other mmos either. I have not seen anything to suggest that the old style could not be worked to get over any render problems and keep its essense. Style is just that, a look. You can have a stylised realistic look just as easily as you can with a stylised toonie look. It didnt have to be photo quality. I honestly believe the change made is more to do with appealing to an audience that was, up until this point, not the target.
The old style felt old to me, like an attempt at a "reality type " style that couldn't possibly be realized. Where the new style feels modern in the acceptance that some imagination is required by the customer 5o be immersed in the game or any game. Quote I recall with this debate : Aim high, you may not hit your target but you'll at least avoid shooting yourself in the foot" also " Perfection is the enemy of progress" this last one applies to everything except bomb defusal.
StoneFish said:The old style felt old to me, like an attempt at a "reality type " style that couldn't possibly be realized. Where the new style feels modern in the acceptance that some imagination is required by the customer 5o be immersed in the game or any game. Quote I recall with this debate : Aim high, you may not hit your target but you'll at least avoid shooting yourself in the foot" also " Perfection is the enemy of progress" this last one applies to everything except bomb defusal.
And yet other game manage to creata 'reality type' style. Clearly it is possible as its been done. Its that VR didn't realize for 9 years that they didn't have someone who could actually make it happen.
@Those suggesting a 2 year launch: There won't (shouldn't) be any Alpha testing until all of the content is available.. which won't be within a year IMO - they haven't even made a firm decision on all of the classes basic mechanics yet, let alone all of the origin cities or even completed continents that will need to have perception quests and environmental acclimations that will require attunement quests that need to scale in difficulty while allowing/promoting replayability/returning at later levels. Alpha testing 'should' last longer than Pre-Alpha testing if that gives any idea of the length we have before Alpha... and Beta testing should only be for last minute stress testing/load balancing and otherwise 'acceptance testing' for the user experience, which should only be a few weeks at most even if moving at a snail's pace. The Pre-Alpha phase for PRotF has seemingly been broken up into weekend "events" over time, so although the game has been in Pre-Alpha phase for years, the actual pre-alpha 'testing' has been a couple of months, cumulatively speaking. In pre-alpha, they should just be testing for 'basic' functionality/usability and security which doesn't require the product to be completed. The Alpha testing is where we will get into deeper game functionality (balancing for unforeseen user ingenuity) which requires the development of the product to be completed, but simply making adjustments to the developed product... not generating more content that would need to be tested again ("content" not meaning terrain, but meaning new game mechanics - like adding the Necromancer or the Progeny system). Unless new classes will just use the same mechanics as already existing classes and systems like progeny have no impact, then there will need to be testing done for those too. Most games that introduce new mechanics after launch have to roll out large updates (and often charge money) for it because existing mechanics need to be changed to accomodate the changes (i.e. game expansions) which also go through testing before production release.
IMO, we have way more than 2 years "if we maintain this development pace"... even with Fortnite graphics. I'll be happy with the announcement of all of the classes' core mechanics/abilities within 2 years. I've been happy with the 'flex' roles of the couple of classes they have completed. Just sit back and enjoy the show.
Add: As I re-read my post, I looked at my EQ1 avatar image and honestly prefer EQ1 graphics to Fortnite. The art change really hurts my heart but I'm ultimately not following this game for the artwork; There was never a promise of any particular graphic style. I'm following the game for its promise of the mechanics, which is what I'm concerned with most, and which will take way more time than any graphics to get right.
I just came back to check on the state of the game and am devastated.
This is not at all what I pledged for.
I am deeply concerned that I will log on and constantly see unintended visual cues that shatter my immersion and redirect my focus to WoW and all of its substantial baggage. For me, I cannot do it. I cannot play this game with the art style as it is currently presented.
It really looks terrible. I can hardly come up with something positive after a 12 months hiatus. All I see is terrible and worse than before, without any communication on any positive progress.
At this point I am more certain than not, that the game will never see the light of day or go down in flames as one of the most underdelivered promises in history. Truly a devastating legacy for Brad and I do hope the ones in charge have enough heart to feel what they are doing to this mans legacy.
