Community Opinion - Character Models and Class Updates - What was your favorite part of our latest developer stream and why?
My favourite part was the warm fuzzy feeling I was left with afterward!
Always happy to see progress, of course, but more happy to hear from team members that are experienced and enthusiastic, skilled and passionate. This, reassuringly, happens every time, but always good to see and hear.
As fro the class details: I've known for a long time that Pantheon classes are all shaping up to be interesting in distinct ways - in other games I'm often only keen on one or two, but I really think I'm going to have many alts to cover all classes (and races). It's always good to hear more of course, and, though I probably won't appreciate all the nuance until I play them, I can appreciate from the streams that there will *be* plenty of nuance.
As for the models: They look great and I'm very pleased that work is going into making them more efficient and making future development more efficient and not prioritising, as other games in the genre often do, going into making flashy (cash shop saleable) 'attractive' graphics. The art style continues to look a good middle ground between fantastic and realistic. Magical and gritty. Just how I like it.
With the spell effects, architectural and environmental graphics we've also been seeing, graphics are going to be an immersive treat.
Well done all.
My favorite part of the stream was the definite art direction of what we the players can expect from now on. I also am liking that each class is having their own unique identity and is pushing beyond what is expected of that class.
What I would like to see is how they are going to approach proceduralism and modularity into the design. I am assuming that the clothed character model that was shown in Marmoset viewer is mainly basic armor. I wish we got to see what they have in mind for more unqiue dungeon specific armors, or even class specific armor. I am not against "flashy" armor", if it comes from areas with formidable foes (group required) like an underwater grotto or a forbidden garden etc. Overall, I am excited to see the progress of the team.
I was most impressed with the art updates and that the work being done will improve quality, performance, and build time. The new art team came across as very knowledgeable and capable. And, like mentioned on the Pantheon Plus Rewind, once I saw the old side by side with the new, I can't unsee the bulbous head of the old art. Perhaps we can keep the old human art for a human imposter mob.
Kilsin said:Community Opinion - Character Models and Class Updates - What was your favorite part of our latest developer stream and why?
Can we say pretty much all of it? Lol.
I enjoyed all of it, Tehom is doing a great job on making each class even more distinctive, Tara is doing a great job on producing some good looking models that are perfomant, and Duarte is doing a great job with animations and improving performance through bone reduction. I hope things continue to go smoothly for them! And I really enjoyed seeing the variety of textures/armor patterns for the same mesh! Hopefully we'll have a variety of meshes too.
How many of these, animated, concurrently on the screen at once, have you successfully load tested for FPS in your Testing environment ?
What I mean is, while it's nice to see models outside of the game, how do they currently look & perform inside the game, and more specifically, when you have 10, 50, or 100+ of these animated, lit, shaded, textured, rigged, and geared/equipped models, in a client viewport, rendered by the engine, what effect does it have on the client, in terms of sustained FPS ? Will the minimum specifications for the game need to be adjusted in order to roll out these new models?
IMO:
Personally, I have never seen concept art (in particular, character or NPC models) go to production without massive poly-count reduction and similar efficiencies forced upon them, due to performance issues (in MMOs).
vjek said:How many of these, animated, concurrently on the screen at once, have you successfully load tested for FPS in your Testing environment ?
What I mean is, while it's nice to see models outside of the game, how do they currently look & perform inside the game, and more specifically, when you have 10, 50, or 100+ of these animated, lit, shaded, textured, rigged, and geared/equipped models, in a client viewport, rendered by the engine, what effect does it have on the client, in terms of sustained FPS ? Will the minimum specifications for the game need to be adjusted in order to roll out these new models?
IMO:Personally, I have never seen concept art (in particular, character or NPC models) go to production without massive poly-count reduction and similar efficiencies forced upon them, due to performance issues (in MMOs).
Lets not forget its not just the models, their polygon counts and textures, its also all the spell effects, lighting effects, weather effects, that will further tax the client. I'm not confident, yet, that this beeline to high def textures, models, etc are going to be playable on mid-range systems...systems that, I suspect, most of the playerbase will be utilizing. Nobody likes having to shut off or lower graphic settings because a game company spent more time/effort on pretty graphics instead of compelling gameplay.
I already wrote out a long post with my thoughts over on your other post so I won't copy and paste it over here but just let you follow the link to read it over there.
my favorite part was the new characert animation motion- run-etc it looks great and flow well
i dont like the new texture just because it looks a little like fort night character model facial expression.
im just used to seeing the old patheon character model. they all look mature and serious than the new character model. fun looking.
I like the new format of showing off some spell updates for several classes in the streams. I am yearning for more info on the actual gameplay and level progression of the classes, but I understand the desire to not reveal too much...I guess it's frustrating for both sides :)
@GoofyWarriorGuy: Great post over there about the abilities. Iirc a few of your concerns were already discussed in earlier streams, but I hope that we will learn more soon (tm) about the actual spell/ability mechanics.
About the character model upgrades: I have to admit that while hearing this I was like "What, they are redoing ANOTHER thing?!", but the explanations given made sense. In the end, we want the game out there, and everything that helps to achieve that is good.
IMO the new human models look good (even tho I didn't dislike the old models). And I was happy to see the many different armor previews...if the update helps them get out so much variety faster, that is great.
Vandraad said:vjek said:How many of these, animated, concurrently on the screen at once, have you successfully load tested for FPS in your Testing environment ?
What I mean is, while it's nice to see models outside of the game, how do they currently look & perform inside the game, and more specifically, when you have 10, 50, or 100+ of these animated, lit, shaded, textured, rigged, and geared/equipped models, in a client viewport, rendered by the engine, what effect does it have on the client, in terms of sustained FPS ? Will the minimum specifications for the game need to be adjusted in order to roll out these new models?
IMO:Personally, I have never seen concept art (in particular, character or NPC models) go to production without massive poly-count reduction and similar efficiencies forced upon them, due to performance issues (in MMOs).
Lets not forget its not just the models, their polygon counts and textures, its also all the spell effects, lighting effects, weather effects, that will further tax the client. I'm not confident, yet, that this beeline to high def textures, models, etc are going to be playable on mid-range systems...systems that, I suspect, most of the playerbase will be utilizing. Nobody likes having to shut off or lower graphic settings because a game company spent more time/effort on pretty graphics instead of compelling gameplay.
Didn't they specifically say in the vid that a large part of the redevelopment of the models is to do with improving efficiencies and that they had one third less bones and one fifth less polygons whilst improving the look?
I'm not a graphics artist, but was there anything in specific that is really worrying about what VR are doing? From the recent vid, I was left feeling the opposite - that they seemed to be making specific effort for efficiency. That even if they have had to do some redevelopment, much like the refactoring of some of the code, it was for very good reasons with very good effect?
disposalist said:Didn't they specifically say in the vid that a large part of the redevelopment of the models is to do with improving efficiencies and that they had one third less bones and one fifth less polygons whilst improving the look?I'm not a graphics artist, but was there anything in specific that is really worrying about what VR are doing? From the recent vid, I was left feeling the opposite - that they seemed to be making specific effort for efficiency. That even if they have had to do some redevelopment, much like the refactoring of some of the code, it was for very good reasons with very good effect?
IMO:
Yep, which is why I asked the questions regarding numbers of models in the client viewport and the resulting performance consequences.
I think, objectively, ~anyone can assess the visual fidelity of these models is considerably higher than ECO, or EQ1, and likely higher than MNM models. That, to me, is worrying.
They've had 8+ years to work on efficiencies like this, so it would be interesting to know the actual numbers that have changed over time from 2014 to 2022.
Also, specifically what the (current) new numbers are versus the old numbers, as this is the (at least) third time they've revealed humanoid models for Pantheon without wide-spread free & public testing in between any of the milestones.
Glad to see the characters models were upgraded. To me this is one of the most important aspects of a MMO because this is what will be looking at most of the time when playing. i do not like the way the female human model looks though. This has been a big complaint before and still is but the female models look too masuline. They should look more feminine (nobody is asking for TERA or Soul & Blade). Hopefully they will be able to put in some customization as revealed in the Year in Review stream that makes it a moot point. My wife is going to be playing this game and she prefers the older models. She does not like muscular looking women. But the meshes and textures themselves are very well done.
