Forums » The Wizard

Hold my hat, please

    • 286 posts
    March 24, 2022 8:12 AM PDT

    As history has shown us about the greatest wizards to walk among our beloved history and literature world we own now, there wouldn't be a world of Magic, and without a world of Magic there wouldn't be great figures like Merlin, Gandalf the Grey / Gandalf the White, Albus Dumbledore, Glinda The Good Witch, Willow Rosenberg, Sauron, Voldemort, Obi Wan Kanobi, Jafar, Dr Strange and Harry Potter, and so, I expect the Wizard class to be precisely where he means to.. #1 damage dealer, baby! 

     

    Thank you very much for your time!

    • 185 posts
    March 24, 2022 2:57 PM PDT

     

    *cough* Zifnab *cough* Fizban *cough*

    • 286 posts
    March 25, 2022 3:37 AM PDT

    Thunderleg said:

     

    *cough* Zifnab *cough* Fizban *cough*

     

    I expected nothing less.


    This post was edited by BigBadAzz1 at March 25, 2022 3:44 AM PDT
    • 12 posts
    March 27, 2022 5:29 PM PDT

    I agree!  To my knowledge wizards don't have anything other than damage currently to bring to groups.  Being able to teleport does not increase group functionlaity.  An example of bringing something with major impact to a group is how rogues can save a group with CC and still have high DPS.  Most classes can fill two group functions like DPS\heal or CC/DPS or Tank/heal. In order to offset this lack of utility wizards should be able to help fill another role like minor heals or deal out 15-20% more damage than any other class or they will be almost pointless.  If I made one it would be to have a port mule for groups, then I would log into my main class to actually group with.  Even then a Druid might be the better option as they can heal/DPS/port. 


    This post was edited by Mrebs at March 27, 2022 5:31 PM PDT
    • 1846 posts
    March 27, 2022 8:30 PM PDT

    Mrebs said:

    To my knowledge wizards don't have anything other than damage currently to bring to groups.  Being able to teleport does not increase group functionlaity.

    Of the abilities we know about currently, a Wizard can:

    see invisible (stealthed) enemies.

    interrupt an enemy's spell casting and silence him for 2 seconds.

    debuff an enemy's Fire or Cold or Magic resistance.

    He also has a self buff that increases his Health & Armor class, and a personal damage shield. We've seen more than a few abililties in other Classes that are single target to start, but become group targeting when raised by Mastery Points. So either or both of these abilities may be applicable to others that way.

    The Gatewalker ability will grow with a Wizard's levels (and possibly with Mastery Points as well). When maxed out, a Wizard will be able to cast (or summon) a portal wherever he is, and take his whole group thru it TO one of the Gates. Sounds a lot like an Evac to avoid a wipe to me.

    And as VR keeps reminding us, we haven't been told all of any Class's abilities yet.

     

    I'm gonna love my Wizard :)

     

    • 12 posts
    April 3, 2022 10:04 AM PDT

    Jothany said:

    Mrebs said:

    To my knowledge wizards don't have anything other than damage currently to bring to groups.  Being able to teleport does not increase group functionlaity.

    Of the abilities we know about currently, a Wizard can:

    see invisible (stealthed) enemies.

    - I am sure other classes will have this ability at launch, so it does not set wizards apart or make them needed in a group in anyway.  Wizards will more than likely not be pulling in group situations and the classes that will be pulling will probably have this capability or the enchanter that most groups will have will cast this on those who are pulling mobs in groups.  The only way this could be big for wizards is if other classes including enchanters, did not have the capability to cast this on others and wizards were able to provide it to group members to enable pullers to see invisible mobs. 

    interrupt an enemy's spell casting and silence him for 2 seconds. 

    - Other classes will have the interrupt capability and those classes can also fill the role of additional classes in a group so why pick a wizard over those classes? For instance;  A rogue can DPS and CC/interrupt (so rogues = DPS and CC class roles) or an enchanter (CC/DPS class roles) and can cast see invise.  What other class role can wizards currently fill other than damage?  Root IMO is not considered a reliable group CC option.  Now giving wizards the ability to send a mob(s) to a different dimension for # minutes would categorize them IMO as having the capability to fill the role as viable CC for a group, putting them on par with other DPS classes which are currently able to fill multiple class roles.  

    debuff an enemy's Fire or Cold or Magic resistance.

    - This helps the DPS role and odds are other classes will be able to cover down on this at launch so in no way sets wizards apart or helps them fill another class role.

    He also has a self buff that increases his Health & Armor class, and a personal damage shield. We've seen more than a few abilities in other Classes that are single target to start, but become group targeting when raised by Mastery Points. So either or both of these abilities may be applicable to others that way.

    - If around level 10 this becomes a group capability then it would be a step in the right direction to making wizards beneficial towards grouping, with something other than damage and damage increasing capabilities but my guess is other classes will have a similar buff that which will negate the reason to have a wizard in your group. 

    The Gatewalker ability will grow with a Wizard's levels (and possibly with Mastery Points as well). When maxed out, a Wizard will be able to cast (or summon) a portal wherever he is, and take his whole group thru it TO one of the Gates. Sounds a lot like an Evac to avoid a wipe to me. 

    - Will wizards be the only one capable of this or will druids also have this capability, and druids will definitely be able to fill multiple class roles as well in a group so how does bringing a wizard over a druid to a group make sense? 

    And as VR keeps reminding us, we haven't been told all of any Class's abilities yet. 

    -  Hopefully they have something up their sleeves that will set wizards apart or give them the ability to add functionality to a group, if not they will just be the filler class, because none of the more capable classes were available to group with at that time.

     I'm gonna love my Wizard :)

    - My main in EQ was a wizard and for years I was one of the top wizards on my server, so I fully know the struggles of grouping with a wizard and in EQ wizards had similar capabilities and were towards the bottom if not the last picked for a strong group.  My concern is if Pantheon does not implement something to set their wizards apart from past games, in which wizards have suffered due to their limitations, the wizards of Pantheon will fall to the same fate.  IF WIZARDS ARE MEANT TO BE THE ONLY DAMAGE CLASS IN THE GAME THAT CAN NOT BACKFILL ANOTHER CLASS WHEN NEEDED, THEN THEIR DAMAGE MUST BY FAR OUT PARSE OTHER DAMAGE CLASSES TO MAKE THEM WANTED IN GROUPS.

     

    Jothany, To be clear I am not saying your points aren’t viable however, I wanted to provide my thoughts to make the wizard a more desirable class for group play, biased off the years of experience I have had playing one.  If they can make them the clear DPS king OR give them the ability to back fill another major class role (think out side the box; white wizards can heal? Give them off heals?), then I will definently make a wizard.

     

    • 1846 posts
    April 4, 2022 4:42 PM PDT

     

    I don't think you payed attention to your specific comment that I quoted when I responded to you. You said:

    To my knowledge wizards don't have anything other than damage currently to bring to groups.

    'Knowledge' refers to facts we know. Not our predictions, assumptions, or theorycrafting. Those are all fine subjects to discuss on the forums and it's fine that yours don't agree with mine, but they are not what your comment said.

    The abilities I listed are presently the facts about "things other than damage that a Wizard currently brings to a group". Not that they can't change in the future. I only posted the list because it sounded like you weren't aware of some/all of them.

    If you had said "I predict that all the known abilities of a Wizard - other than DPS - are going to wind up in other other Class's skillsets, and therefore the Wizard will not be wanted in groups", I would have posted a significantly different response.

    I'm sorry to have wasted your time.

    • 286 posts
    April 8, 2022 6:57 AM PDT

    Mrebs said:

    Jothany said:

    Mrebs said:

    To my knowledge wizards don't have anything other than damage currently to bring to groups.  Being able to teleport does not increase group functionlaity.

    Of the abilities we know about currently, a Wizard can:

    see invisible (stealthed) enemies.

    - I am sure other classes will have this ability at launch, so it does not set wizards apart or make them needed in a group in anyway.  Wizards will more than likely not be pulling in group situations and the classes that will be pulling will probably have this capability or the enchanter that most groups will have will cast this on those who are pulling mobs in groups.  The only way this could be big for wizards is if other classes including enchanters, did not have the capability to cast this on others and wizards were able to provide it to group members to enable pullers to see invisible mobs. 

    interrupt an enemy's spell casting and silence him for 2 seconds. 

    - Other classes will have the interrupt capability and those classes can also fill the role of additional classes in a group so why pick a wizard over those classes? For instance;  A rogue can DPS and CC/interrupt (so rogues = DPS and CC class roles) or an enchanter (CC/DPS class roles) and can cast see invise.  What other class role can wizards currently fill other than damage?  Root IMO is not considered a reliable group CC option.  Now giving wizards the ability to send a mob(s) to a different dimension for # minutes would categorize them IMO as having the capability to fill the role as viable CC for a group, putting them on par with other DPS classes which are currently able to fill multiple class roles.  

    debuff an enemy's Fire or Cold or Magic resistance.

    - This helps the DPS role and odds are other classes will be able to cover down on this at launch so in no way sets wizards apart or helps them fill another class role.

    He also has a self buff that increases his Health & Armor class, and a personal damage shield. We've seen more than a few abilities in other Classes that are single target to start, but become group targeting when raised by Mastery Points. So either or both of these abilities may be applicable to others that way.

    - If around level 10 this becomes a group capability then it would be a step in the right direction to making wizards beneficial towards grouping, with something other than damage and damage increasing capabilities but my guess is other classes will have a similar buff that which will negate the reason to have a wizard in your group. 

    The Gatewalker ability will grow with a Wizard's levels (and possibly with Mastery Points as well). When maxed out, a Wizard will be able to cast (or summon) a portal wherever he is, and take his whole group thru it TO one of the Gates. Sounds a lot like an Evac to avoid a wipe to me. 

    - Will wizards be the only one capable of this or will druids also have this capability, and druids will definitely be able to fill multiple class roles as well in a group so how does bringing a wizard over a druid to a group make sense? 

    And as VR keeps reminding us, we haven't been told all of any Class's abilities yet. 

    -  Hopefully they have something up their sleeves that will set wizards apart or give them the ability to add functionality to a group, if not they will just be the filler class, because none of the more capable classes were available to group with at that time.

     I'm gonna love my Wizard :)

    - My main in EQ was a wizard and for years I was one of the top wizards on my server, so I fully know the struggles of grouping with a wizard and in EQ wizards had similar capabilities and were towards the bottom if not the last picked for a strong group.  My concern is if Pantheon does not implement something to set their wizards apart from past games, in which wizards have suffered due to their limitations, the wizards of Pantheon will fall to the same fate.  IF WIZARDS ARE MEANT TO BE THE ONLY DAMAGE CLASS IN THE GAME THAT CAN NOT BACKFILL ANOTHER CLASS WHEN NEEDED, THEN THEIR DAMAGE MUST BY FAR OUT PARSE OTHER DAMAGE CLASSES TO MAKE THEM WANTED IN GROUPS.

     

    Jothany, To be clear I am not saying your points aren’t viable however, I wanted to provide my thoughts to make the wizard a more desirable class for group play, biased off the years of experience I have had playing one.  If they can make them the clear DPS king OR give them the ability to back fill another major class role (think out side the box; white wizards can heal? Give them off heals?), then I will definently make a wizard.

     

     

    This guy gets it! I love all you've mentioned here. Although, I'm okay if we don't get teleports... sounds more like a summoner thing XD

    • 12 posts
    May 6, 2022 1:10 PM PDT

    In no way did you waist my time, discussion is important and is key to invoke change.  The point I was trying to make was in reference to wizards being able fill another classs role in a group, not smaller abilities that other classes will have as well. I tried to explain that further down in my original post but it might not have been that clear.  I was not trying to say they can't do anything else for a group, just not anything else another class can't cover down on and not anything substantial like filling another classes role.  From my past experience, if the other classes can step in and fill the role of another class decently and wizards can't, then wizards will be the last one asked to join a group (a filler). So to help aliviate that issue, wizards ether need the capability to effectively fill another classes role, or they need to be well ahead of classes that can in the DPS and sustained damage arena.  Does that make sense?  

    For example if I was building a group and could pick between a rogue that can DPS as good or close to as good as a wizard but can also backup CC if the enchanter goes down then the choice is a no brainer, I am taking the rogue!  However if the wizard has the capability to back up heal as well as DPS, then they are both great choices and can save the group from wipes.  If the wizard can't fill another role then in order to make group leaders want one they need to do so much more damage that groups can noticeably kill faster to off set the exp loss of the additional wipes becuase they can't cc/heal/tank when all the other classes can fill two of those roles or are required in a group (tank).  Hopefully they don't have tanks doing much damage or we will see groups with a healer,cc and all tanks roaming around which will make wizards even less desirable.


    This post was edited by Mrebs at May 6, 2022 1:21 PM PDT
    • 2115 posts
    May 6, 2022 2:10 PM PDT

    Mrebs said:

    ... it might not have been that clear.  I was not trying to say they (wizards) can't do anything else for a group, just not anything else another class can't cover down on and not anything substantial like filling another classes role.  From my past experience, if the other classes can step in and fill the role of another class decently and wizards can't, then wizards will be the last one asked to join a group (a filler). So to help aliviate that issue, wizards ether need the capability to effectively fill another classes role, or they need to be well ahead of classes that can in the DPS and sustained damage arena. 



    They have said classes will have a flex option where they will be able to fill secondary roles to some degree at the expense of their primary role.  The only ones they have really shown are rogue CC and monk tanking I think.

    This was brought up in regards to the wizard before.  I don't see them getting healing spells so maybe there is a way they will be able to absorb damage for a short period at the expense of doing damage? (almost/kind of tanking)?  Or maybe there will be roots and stuns that are counting as support/CC at the expense of doing damage? That's more likely I guess.  Chain stunning as a wizard might be a fun cc option...and being forced to chain the stun would automatically not allow the wizard to dps.  It's speculation, but the answer to your question is flex roles.

    Here is a clip that was easy to grab:
    https://youtu.be/p-wlQa___34?t=2181


    This post was edited by philo at May 6, 2022 2:22 PM PDT
    • 12 posts
    May 7, 2022 8:37 AM PDT
    Philo, thanks for posting the clip I do remember watching that and at this point standing by eagerly to see what flex role wizards will be able to fill.
    • 1227 posts
    May 9, 2022 8:00 AM PDT

    Can't leave out homage to these Forgotten Realms wizards:

    Elminster Aumar
    Gromph Baenre (My personal favorite wizard)