Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Stats Levels Gear O My

    • 247 posts
    November 20, 2021 1:18 PM PST
    Okay so I've been thinking about this a little bit in my head and how this can all work and how it will work and how I'd like to see it.

    And also thinking about the racial abilities and how they're going to be affected by all this.

    So before I go into stats gear levels briefly and looking at racials the dwarf had extra point of hp per sta and the skar has extra 5% for max over all hp .

    So when we talk stats and meaning and levels to mean something the balance of all this is probably going to be the most complicated part of balance..

    Let's take 1sta at level 1 give your 3 points of HP if the amount of HP gained per sta grows as you level it will have to be in a scale that as you level that 1sta means a ton to make gear mean something as you level.. but on top of this the base HP. Just for leveling will have to grow in a way to matter as well or the skills will have to grow to do so like Dodge.
    But in a game like Pantheon were leveling and exploring are to be on par balance is going to o be needed.
    You don't want people running to the top level just because levels means more thin gear and you don't want gear to mean more thin levels.. you need the levels to be hard to gain but to so much so that it turn off. But on the same point you don't want people to rush to the highest level with out having to gain gear to get there gear makes a need for explorering.
    So if 1point of sta at level 1 and it grows 1point for ever level that one Stam at level 50 is 50 dang sounds nice but hp grows with level to. So how do you make gear gains Matter and level gains Matter with out over powering the toon and making the game be more exploration than a race to the top. ?
    For me it means gear needs to mean a slight more thin what a level means so whin you gain a gear it means something a level can means something there is skill attached to the gear like what was once said You can twink a toon with old gear you one but it will not be as efficient as it could be at the level of the gear came from. But. This feels strange. and would need to have balance to and I don't want to else's a level on an items... What your thoughts?
    • 1281 posts
    November 20, 2021 2:17 PM PST

    Some people are going to race to the max regardless because they've been trained to do that over the past 15 years.

    What you can do is make your skills matter as much or more than the level itself. I'm not advocating for a skill based system over class based, but I mean the skills within that class. If weapon and armor skills are formulated to have more of an impact on your ability to deal and take damage than your level alone, you simply slow down the skill increases. Someone who power levels or takes the fastest XP growth route will be lagging behind in skills and be noticeably weaker. As far as we know, this is the path that Pantheon is going to take.

    As for the 5% bonus of Skars in your example, I would like to see static figures. Say the Skar received an addition 10HP per level, rather than a total % greater, to me that would be much easier to balance for long term, but still give them an advantage in that area.

    As for percentage-based increases in general, I've said many times here that I am against ability/skill/damage increases that add a percentage. While it may be easy to design, what you are not factoring in is the mudflation that happens to gear, which would cause greater than anticipated totals to those percentage-based increases. A level 50 character 6 months after release and a level 50 character 6 years after release are going to look vastly different in terms of what equipment they have because of this. That means any abilities/bonuses that add percentages are going to be much higher which means the game will actually become easier over time because you get more out of that formulas. Maybe that is the intention, but IMO it shouldn't be.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at November 20, 2021 2:19 PM PST
    • 247 posts
    November 20, 2021 3:00 PM PST
    Yes the skar why I brought that up was simple the dwarfs get an extra 1 point of hp per sta and they get 5% so depend how stuff is done the dwarf may have a advantage on HP depending on have easy sta is to come bye and what not I don't that they gain a % max but 5% may not be much at all. Depends on how stats grow and effect the toon.
    • 612 posts
    November 20, 2021 3:24 PM PST

    The only way to balance Dwarf and Skar HP to be equal is if the normal gain is always 20hp per stamina.

    Dwarf - 10 sta - 21hp per = 210hp
    Skar - 10 sta - 20hp per + 5% = 210hp

    Dwarf - 500 sta - 21hp per = 10,500hp
    Skar - 500 sta - 20hp per + 5% = 10,500hp

    If you ever get less than 20hp per stamina then the Dwarf will gain the Advantage.
    If you ever get more than 20hp per stamina then the Skar wiill gain the Advantage.

    It also doesn't matter the source of the stamina; Gear or Levels.

    You also have to consider that the Skar bonus will work on HP gained from sources other than Stamina. For example buffs that grant HP directly. Or a Helm with +100hp will give the dwarf only 100hp but the Skar will gain +110hp.

    So maybe they want the Dwarf to have the advantage from stamina, but this is balanced by the fact that the Skar will gain the advantage from +hp items and buffs.

    We will need to wait and see if there is more stamina on gear or more flat +hp.

    • 1860 posts
    November 20, 2021 4:36 PM PST

    Raidil said: Yes the skar why I brought that up was simple the dwarfs get an extra 1 point of hp per sta and they get 5% so depend how stuff is done the dwarf may have a advantage on HP depending on have easy sta is to come bye and what not I don't that they gain a % max but 5% may not be much at all. Depends on how stats grow and effect the toon.


    The difference is, because we have been told there will be both soft and hard caps to stats,  the skar % hit point bonus likely wins in the long run (multiple expansions down the line) while the dwarf hp bonus wins in the short term (likely on release).


    This post was edited by philo at November 20, 2021 4:38 PM PST
    • 247 posts
    November 20, 2021 6:07 PM PST
    I can see this I brought this up as an example. As they talked about how they want stats and levels to meaningful. And rare gear to not be needed but to be It wanted to remember item while leveling. And that levels need to matter. I'm just trying to figure out how these three elements will work and not one being more than the other.