I do not like pvp - ever - unless it is faction based so that I feel I am fighting for a cause not simply *murdering* my fellow players for whatever reward I may get.
In response to the OP's specific comment - I do not want pvp available on any pve server even on a totally optional basis. Why should I care? How does other players having an extra option hurt me?
It hurts me because decades playing almost every major MMO and many not-so-major has taught me that when pvp is an option there is endless complaint on the forums and in-game chat that some classes are not balanced and cannot compete. Best case - this is annoying and drowns out issues that pve players actually care about. Worst case - VR actually listens and tries to balance classes for pvp - thus reducing the highly desirable distinctions between classes that make a much more interesting game than one where any class can do any thing. With separate pvp servers VR can and has said it will limit "balancing" to these servers.
It hurts me because the same decades of experience has taught me that in general servers where there are more pvp players tend to be far more immature, more crowded with trolls and burdened with far too much "trash talk". Simply less pleasant places to be.
I am not saying that all or even most pvp players are more aggressive to other players. But many are - pvp naturally attracts such types. I am not saying that pvp players are all, or even most, younger or more immature. But many are and study after study shows a significant age differential with pvp players on average being younger. But even if these studies are in error - all it takes is a significant number of aggressively immature players to make a server a less nice place to be and to reduce the value of community enforcement of norms since such players care little about "the community" and often pride themselves on being generally disliked.
In short I want pvp focused players on servers designed to attract them and away from any server where I will be unless I decide I like how VR implements pvp and devote a character slot to being there. No offense intended to the many nice people on these forums that have an interest in pvp - almost invariably pvp attracts *other* types that are not so nice.
Pantheon is not a PVP game. They may have PVP servers, but it's not a priority right now.
@dorotea After Eve's corp & alliance & personal standing system for PVP I can never see another PVP MMO living up to it. Aliances betrayals, risk, reward, territory management... Every other MMO seems to just boil down to red vs blue.
Player1782131 has recieved a warning from the carebear alliance. He will be executed for tresspassing if found on our territory again.
Gotta respect the carebears for giving warnings to new players and not just murdering them.
I agree with Dorotea that on PVE servers, I would prefer PVP doesn't exist at all. To make PVP compelling there have to be rewards which seems to inevitably result in pressure to PVP if you want to experience those rewards. That said, in the past I've been OK with just saying no thank you and moving on. So if the majority of the PVE community wants the option it wouldn't be a major deal to me.
A good way to make PvP not affect any PvE scene in a server can be done by a switchable option to set your character from PvE to PvP and viseversa with a simple click of a button. Some games might have this option. It can make PvP scenary very fun and I think it has the option to mix in PvP players with PvE without having to worry about getting jumped.
I actually believe it will even entice people to PvP and even have large groups of PvP'ers vs another group of PvPers. This is coming from a Non-PvPers PoV, although I do like to PvP for fun.
Ruinar said:I agree with Dorotea that on PVE servers, I would prefer PVP doesn't exist at all. To make PVP compelling there have to be rewards which seems to inevitably result in pressure to PVP if you want to experience those rewards. That said, in the past I've been OK with just saying no thank you and moving on. So if the majority of the PVE community wants the option it wouldn't be a major deal to me.
Ruinar, given what you said here, what's your opinion regarding this scenario:
Other Players can perform the pickpocket action on your character/avatar, but the rewards/skillups come from the NPC loot/success/failure framework for NPC humanoids.
Your inventory, money, and items are never affected. The other player never sees your inventory.
You never know it, you never see it, it doesn't affect you in the slightest. You are never at risk of losing anything, you get no messages that they're doing it.
But they can target you for NPC rewards/skillups on a timer, if there are no NPCs around.
Other Players can also pickpocket NPCs, as expected.
NPC's can Pickpocket you, you are are notified of the attempt, success, and failure, but they can only steal small/light/copper coins or items not in bags.
So, while not a PvP system in the sense of causing a negative gameplay experience from one player, directly, do you have any objections to such a system, given the direct actions of other players wouldn't affect you negatively in any way?
Let's not get into a PvE vs PvP argument, please.
Pantheon is a PvE based game first and foremost and always has been but we have said that will have PvP servers for those who enjoy the PvP aspect of MMORPGs and do our best to make those servers fun, balanced and competitive as we have team members who love PvP too.
PvE will never be forced to PvP.
Kilsin said:Let's not get into a PvE vs PvP argument, please.
Pantheon is a PvE based game first and foremost and always has been but we have said that will have PvP servers for those who enjoy the PvP aspect of MMORPGs and do our best to make those servers fun, balanced and competitive as we have team members who love PvP too.
PvE will never be forced to PvP.
Respectable, homie <):) <3
"PvE will never be forced to PvP."
Ah but the question raised by the OP is whether we will be allowed to pvp on pve servers not whether we will be forced to. No one doubts that at a minimum pvp will be optional with some kind of flagging system so that anyone that doesn't want to participate in pvp will not have to. But many good pve games (and some not so good) have allowed pvp in at least some areas if players elect to make themselves pvp-eligible. By entering clearly marked pvp areas or by participating in the pvp or by flagging themselves as pvp or in other ways.
While my preference is "no" for the reasons stated a "yes" answer would be totally legitimate and entirely in keeping with the way more than a few pve games have handled this matter over the years.
I entirely agree that there shouldn't be a debate over pve versus pvp. Both are legitimate styles of play and both (as you say) will be represented in Pantheon. There will be pvp servers and I assume that there will be mobs and harvesting nodes on these so that people can pve on them. There will be pve servers. This thread as I understand it isn't dealing with any of those broad issues - it is dealing with the limited (but interesting) topic of whether optional pvp will be allowed on pve servers. I doubt if VR can or should give a definitive answer at this time - nor did you. But the topic remains interesting to some of us,
dorotea said:"PvE will never be forced to PvP."
Ah but the question raised by the OP is whether we will be allowed to pvp on pve servers not whether we will be forced to. No one doubts that at a minimum pvp will be optional with some kind of flagging system so that anyone that doesn't want to participate in pvp will not have to. But many good pve games (and some not so good) have allowed pvp in at least some areas if players elect to make themselves pvp-eligible. By entering clearly marked pvp areas or by participating in the pvp or by flagging themselves as pvp or in other ways.
While my preference is "no" for the reasons stated a "yes" answer would be totally legitimate and entirely in keeping with the way more than a few pve games have handled this matter over the years.
I entirely agree that there shouldn't be a debate over pve versus pvp. Both are legitimate styles of play and both (as you say) will be represented in Pantheon. There will be pvp servers and I assume that there will be mobs and harvesting nodes on these so that people can pve on them. There will be pve servers. This thread as I understand it isn't dealing with any of those broad issues - it is dealing with the limited (but interesting) topic of whether optional pvp will be allowed on pve servers. I doubt if VR can or should give a definitive answer at this time - nor did you. But the topic remains interesting to some of us,
We have already answered that previously mate but to restate it, if we do go ahead with allowing PvP on a PvE server, it would probably be in the form of an arena or designated area for players to duel etc. but whatever we decide, it will not impact PvE at all.
Kilsin said:dorotea said:"PvE will never be forced to PvP."
Ah but the question raised by the OP is whether we will be allowed to pvp on pve servers not whether we will be forced to. No one doubts that at a minimum pvp will be optional with some kind of flagging system so that anyone that doesn't want to participate in pvp will not have to. But many good pve games (and some not so good) have allowed pvp in at least some areas if players elect to make themselves pvp-eligible. By entering clearly marked pvp areas or by participating in the pvp or by flagging themselves as pvp or in other ways.
While my preference is "no" for the reasons stated a "yes" answer would be totally legitimate and entirely in keeping with the way more than a few pve games have handled this matter over the years.
I entirely agree that there shouldn't be a debate over pve versus pvp. Both are legitimate styles of play and both (as you say) will be represented in Pantheon. There will be pvp servers and I assume that there will be mobs and harvesting nodes on these so that people can pve on them. There will be pve servers. This thread as I understand it isn't dealing with any of those broad issues - it is dealing with the limited (but interesting) topic of whether optional pvp will be allowed on pve servers. I doubt if VR can or should give a definitive answer at this time - nor did you. But the topic remains interesting to some of us,
We have already answered that previously mate but to restate it, if we do go ahead with allowing PvP on a PvE server, it would probably be in the form of an arena or designated area for players to duel etc. but whatever we decide, it will not impact PvE at all.
Thank you very much for keeping in contact with the community and still answering us these so hyped up questions :) I honestly think the dev team has been very humble and patient to answer us all these questions and still maintain a level of professionalism! Yesterday's stream with the devs was a very enjoyable time that you guys answered to the best of your abilities and it makes me feel like all the dev team cares a lot about our fan base and community that has brought different type of players together to this amazing video game that we all feel like it brings us joy and gives us hope for a chance to relive and have fun once again. My props goes to you, the Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen franchise and it's community because I can already feel a great sense of something great <3
Kilsin said:Let's not get into a PvE vs PvP argument, please.
Pantheon is a PvE based game first and foremost and always has been but we have said that will have PvP servers for those who enjoy the PvP aspect of MMORPGs and do our best to make those servers fun, balanced and competitive as we have team members who love PvP too.
PvE will never be forced to PvP.
The balanced part is my biggest concern. Will this "balanced" PVP effect PVE on other servers or only be limited to PVP/PVP servers? If this has been addressed before I apologize but this is a major concern for me.
In previous MMOs with PVP across the board balance changes my PVE healer was "nerfed" because they were "too hard to kill" in PVP (obviously ignoring the lack of damage they could do lol).
I really cannot understate how frustraing it is to have major changes to your class done for something you have no desire to participate in at all. While PVP should never be forced, if PVP balance changes are forced on PVE you can see how that is an issue.
Again, if this has been addressed previoulsy I apologize.
TheBus88 said:The balanced part is my biggest concern. Will this "balanced" PVP effect PVE on other servers or only be limited to PVP/PVP servers? If this has been addressed before I apologize but this is a major concern for me.
In previous MMOs with PVP across the board balance changes my PVE healer was "nerfed" because they were "too hard to kill" in PVP (obviously ignoring the lack of damage they could do lol).
I really cannot understate how frustraing it is to have major changes to your class done for something you have no desire to participate in at all. While PVP should never be forced, if PVP balance changes are forced on PVE you can see how that is an issue.
Again, if this has been addressed previoulsy I apologize.
This has indeed been addressed, as PvP is a contentious subject. Sadly, these forum's search function isn't the greatest, so it would be hard for you to find it.
VR has said that they will be able to modify Class abilities on a PvP server without causing any change to the Classes on PvE servers. Now since PvP is a secondary focus for VR, it's quite possible that PvP 'balancing' might still be a work in progress at Release day. I also suspect that if there are PvP areas on PvE servers, that it might not be possible to have that 'proper' PvP balance there.
Jothany said:TheBus88 said:The balanced part is my biggest concern. Will this "balanced" PVP effect PVE on other servers or only be limited to PVP/PVP servers? If this has been addressed before I apologize but this is a major concern for me.
In previous MMOs with PVP across the board balance changes my PVE healer was "nerfed" because they were "too hard to kill" in PVP (obviously ignoring the lack of damage they could do lol).
I really cannot understate how frustraing it is to have major changes to your class done for something you have no desire to participate in at all. While PVP should never be forced, if PVP balance changes are forced on PVE you can see how that is an issue.
Again, if this has been addressed previoulsy I apologize.
This has indeed been addressed, as PvP is a contentious subject. Sadly, these forum's search function isn't the greatest, so it would be hard for you to find it.
VR has said that they will be able to modify Class abilities on a PvP server without causing any change to the Classes on PvE servers. Now since PvP is a secondary focus for VR, it's quite possible that PvP 'balancing' might still be a work in progress at Release day. I also suspect that if there are PvP areas on PvE servers, that it might not be possible to have that 'proper' PvP balance there.
Sweet, thanks!
unrelated...
But during a Fear wipe while we were waiting for the third guild to come and help- I say third guild- we were entertained when two of the top warriors, now un buffed and naked, decided to have a bare-knuckle fist-fight through an agreed /duel. winner had to be declared by percentage, iirc it was 98 to 97 after abt 30-45min.