Forums » The Paladin

Paladin DPS Metre

    • 27 posts
    September 2, 2021 6:47 AM PDT

    As you all may know, most of the skills listed are either buff skills for friends/allies of the paladin, or for the paladin Herself. So far, only the /Pommel and Cross/ ability seems to deal damage. This, in essence is a good thing, because it not only fits for the lore of the paladin, but Her simplistic "battle interface" as well (you don't have to arrange one skill in congruence to one key, having dozens of combinations in actual battle). Mostly healing, just that one key is for offense.

    However, how does this affect a paladin's damage output? To counter this "weakness," I would look to Her "oath." Does the /oath/ lead Her to a "higher calling?" What exactly does this mean? Probably to a more tenacious suit of armor, or a more worthy blade - The Calling of the Sword. Some may believe in this in an MMO, some may not, it depends how hardcore a player is. I myself come from a dungeons and dragons / forgotten realms background, so I half-heartedly believe in it. But case-to-point, the Paladin-knight is a force to be reckoned with, and I believe that some of Her attacks ranks as the most powerful smiting(s) in all the realms. 

    What does the community think about the skills list for the paladin on this website, and how to make up for the lack of DPS for the Paladin-knight (mechanic's-wise and lore wise).

    • 1533 posts
    September 2, 2021 10:54 AM PDT

    The skill list is not yet finished for any Class, and all the official Class pages on this site tend to show the broadest possible range of skills, rather than focusing on one area like abilities that do damage.

    The Paladin page on the Wiki has a longer list of what we currently know about her abilities. There are a number of damage-dealing abilities mentioned.

    https://pantheonriseofthefallen.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin/Abilities

     

    Several threads have already had discussions about which Tank will be able to do the most DPS when not tanking. The majority seem to think it will be the Dire Lord. That may turn out to be correct, but it is way too early to be at all certain.

     

    • 27 posts
    September 2, 2021 11:16 AM PDT

    Jothany said:

    Several threads have already had discussions about which Tank will be able to do the most DPS when not tanking. The majority seem to think it will be the Dire Lord. That may turn out to be correct, but it is way too early to be at all certain.

     

    While this seems to make the most sense, a comprehensive list of weapons would help evaluate this edict more accurately, and grade of the weapons, if there are alignment restrictions (certain powerful swords only Lawful/and/or/Good can use), etc. 

    Also, the paladin has about 2-3 times the plethora of proficiency with weapons, therefore expanding the list of damage they can do with chosen weapon. For instance the Dire Lord has a powerful Great Blade but a paladin found a mace, warhammer, or polearm that is artifact or legendary tier.

    • 1533 posts
    September 2, 2021 2:46 PM PDT

    CygnusBinary said: While this seems to make the most sense, a comprehensive list of weapons would help evaluate this edict more accurately, and grade of the weapons, if there are alignment restrictions (certain powerful swords only Lawful/and/or/Good can use), etc. 

    Also, the paladin has about 2-3 times the plethora of proficiency with weapons, therefore expanding the list of damage they can do with chosen weapon. For instance the Dire Lord has a powerful Great Blade but a paladin found a mace, warhammer, or polearm that is artifact or legendary tier.

    If this is what you meant by a list, I had one in my notes so here it is:

    Warrior    Every known weapon except Long Bow

    Dire Lord    Sword, Gr. Sword,  Axe, Gr. Axe, Gr. Blade, Edged

    Paladin    Sword, Gr. Sword, Club, War Hammer, Gr. Hammer, Mace, Gr. Mace, Edged, Gr. Blade, Axe, Gr. Axe, Polearm

    We haven't been given any info relating to one type of weapon being intrinsically more powerful than another. Damage & Speed appear to be roughly balanced out, such that a player's choice of stats to improve with gear could possibly make a smaller weapon do more average damage than a larger weapon.

    In terms of types of Damage, a Dire Lord can only do Slashing. A Paladin can do Slashing & Bludgeon. A Warrior can do Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeon and Ranged (with Bows). But...there are definitely Elemental types of damage. And Crafters should be able to add those types of Damage to weapons they make. If this holds true, then every class will be able to do some number of Elemental types of damage with a properly crafted weapon of the type they can equip. That should eventually help 'even out' the discrepancies in weapon access between Classes.

    From what VR has said in the past, 'alignment' - as in Good, Neutral, Evil - isn't going to exist. Faction will exist, but so far no indication that faction will gate access to specific weapon types, though of course it will have some affect on accessing all sorts of quests, which likely will include high-level weapon quests.

    Most discussions about who will do the most DPS focus on the selection of abilities that the different Tanks have. I personally will play a Dire Lord, but I don't have any strong belief that he will do significantly more damage than the other Tanks.

    • 714 posts
    September 2, 2021 3:37 PM PDT

    Jothany said: "From what VR has said in the past, 'alignment' - as in Good, Neutral, Evil - isn't going to exist."

    This is incorrect.

    On Dec 9 2016 in the Cohh stream there was a question about Faction (Source) and Joppa said the following:

    Joppa said: “You can’t talk about having an open living breathing world without having real dynamic faction relationships between the different denizen’s of the world. From the get go you will be making decisions, performing actions, that will start to effect your faction with certain races and other factions within the game world. It’s not limited to factions. Alignment will also play a role. We will see some of that with the perception system. Not only are your decisions and actions effecting your faction alignment with other denizens of the world, but your also going to be progressing along a moral alignment as well. So you may have some NPCs that respond to faction, and you may have some that respond to alignment, and you may have some that respond to both. Our hopes is that it will create a pretty deep system of interaction between NPCs and the other denizens of the world as your character takes shape throughout the game.”


    Now obviously that was long ago and things could have changed since then, but it was always in the plans to have Alignment. Maybe once we see them implement the Reputation UI frame we will get a better idea if Pantheon will still have Alignment along with Faction.

    Have you seen or heard something from VR recently that has mentioned them scrapping the Alignment idea that I might have missed? Or are you just going by the fact that we haven't heard them talk about it recently?

    • 1533 posts
    September 2, 2021 4:33 PM PDT

    You're correct that they definitely had Good-Neutral-Bad alignment planned back in the day. I don't have a link, but in the years since that stream, I have heard Joppa say that they were moving away from the Good-Neutral-Bad paradigm. My sense of what I heard was that only faction was going to be in by release. I could be wrong about it being 100% removed, but I've heard that change mentioned a couple of times in recent years.

    I would also note that in every stream, we can see in the streamer's chat box, lots of messages about changes of Faction. Nothing I've ever seen in those messages related to Alignment.


    This post was edited by Jothany at September 2, 2021 4:35 PM PDT
    • 27 posts
    September 2, 2021 5:07 PM PDT

    I don't think they will have an "official" alignment system. Alignment is alignment, and on the character sheet it will *say* Alignment: LG, NG, CG, LN, N, CN, LE, NE, or CE. If we do not see this (or something synonymous to it), then there is no concrete alignment system. Faction is different in that it is a measure of which "niche" or "group" the PC relates to the most, and this in and of itself is wide in variety. 

    • 1533 posts
    September 3, 2021 3:23 PM PDT

    CygnusBinary said: I don't think they will have an "official" alignment system. Alignment is alignment, and on the character sheet it will *say* Alignment: LG, NG, CG, LN, N, CN, LE, NE, or CE. If we do not see this (or something synonymous to it), then there is no concrete alignment system.

    By this definition there will definitely be no concrete alignment system. To my knowledge "lawful, neutral, chaotic" have never been used by VR to describe Classes in Pantheon in the 7 years I've been following the Game.

    As Goofy pointed out,"Good, Neutral, Evil" were used early on in regards to an 'official' alignment system for the 3 races of each continent. Kingsreach races being Good, Reignfall races being Evil, Whitethaw races being Neutral. There has been no mention of them anytime recently.

    I could certainly be mistaken in my recollection of hearing Joppa answer a question in a stream about them by saying something to the effect of "we've been moving away from that distinction" and focusing mostly on Faction. Until we get more info from VR, it's what I think is going to happen. And even if I am correct, VR has made it clear that NOTHING is for sure until Release day arrives :)

    • 714 posts
    September 4, 2021 6:39 PM PDT

    So I did a little more research since I couldn't remember when they might have said they were moving away from having Alignment.

    In the April 6, 2019 Dev Roundtable (source) Ben 'Kilsin' Walters discussed this exact thing with Ben 'Machail' Dean and Brad 'Aradune' McQuaid.

    It was here that they suggested that they no longer wanted to focus on 'Good vs Evil' since it made things too one dimentional. Also since normally people don't really ever consider themselves Evil and rather it's more about the perspective of how others see them as Evil. So instead of having a system that tracks how 'Good' or how 'Evil' you are, they were instead going to focus more on a deeper Faction system with much more group connections. So if you kill one Faction group... other groups may start seeing you as Evil (your faction with them goes down) even if you yourself think you are being 'Good' by your standards.

    Joppa called them 'Faction Ties' (source) and even said some Faction groups will be 'resistant' to being considered and might need Keepers (perception system) to help you unlock that Faction group for your Tracker. Also some 'Faction Ties' may not be visible unless you've already discovered those connected Factions. So if a group was Flagged as a 'Hidden' faction, and that group was an ally of Orcs... if you are killing Orcs you may not see that you are losing Faction with this Ally group of Orcs (who now see you as Evil) even though you are. Only once you've discovered that Ally group will it not be hidden anymore and suddenly the game starts telling you that you lose faction with them when you kill Orcs.


    Anyway... sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread away from Paladin dps :-)


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at September 4, 2021 6:41 PM PDT
    • 1533 posts
    September 4, 2021 9:55 PM PDT

    That's great Goofy, thanks!

    • 27 posts
    September 6, 2021 10:24 AM PDT

     

    So this is the character sheet that we're seeing so far, and there is nothing that says "Alignment." However, on the top right, there is a tab that says "acclimation," and I believe this is something new. And I don't believe there will be a "Qeynos" and "Freeport" starting area(s) as well, one designated Good, the other, Evil.

    EDIT: I believe it was stated that acclimation is the ability to traverse new/rough terrains and/or environments. For instance if you are exploring a dungeon and found a tight spot with a rocky cliff you may not be able to advance to the other side unless your /acclimation/ is a certain level. So you would have to turn back and come back later.

    Touching back on topic, however, a dwarven paladin is also a force to be reckoned with, where the arsenal of the human paladin fails Her against hard-to-hit opponents.


    This post was edited by OmegaBeam at September 6, 2021 1:31 PM PDT
    • 714 posts
    September 6, 2021 5:47 PM PDT

    Sorry to derail this thread yet again...

    CygnusBinary said:

    However, on the top right, there is a tab that says "acclimation," and I believe this is something new.

    EDIT: I believe it was stated that acclimation is the ability to traverse new/rough terrains and/or environments. For instance if you are exploring a dungeon and found a tight spot with a rocky cliff you may not be able to advance to the other side unless your /acclimation/ is a certain level. So you would have to turn back and come back later.

    Acclimation is not new and has been a main staple of Pantheon since the beginning.

    This is not about 'rough' terrain but instead about active Climate effecting the player. Really hot or cold environments. Areas where there is less Oxygen or the air is Toxic. Or the area is under extreme Pressure. Just entering such an area will cause negative effects and even damage if you are not 'Acclimatized' for it.


    When you are considering 'terrains' or 'Effects' that you may need special means to deal with, these are called 'Fractures' and are a different system than Acclimation. These could be things like areas of Complete Magical Darkness, or a place where the Floor is Frenetic (phasing in and out of existance) and you will fall through if you step there. These are Unatural Phenomenon that require special things to deal with such as an item that lets you levitate across the Franetic Floor, or a special Magical Lightsource that pierces the Magical Darkness. Fractures could be all sorts of things and we will need to wait and see all the crazy stuff we might need to deal with as we adventure.

    As for Acclimation, they are Natural types of environments even if they are more extreme in this Fantasy setting than you would find in our normal world (although a real Volcano would be pretty Scorching). Some of these effects could be zone wide, and some might be very localized to a specific room or near an object.

    The player will be able to aquire Glyphs as they adventure that will add Acclimation protection that they can apply much like a Tattoo onto different parts of their body: Head, Torso, Arms, Hands, Legs, and Feet.

    If you apply a different Glyph to a body part you will lose any Glyph already applied that you are replacing. Joppa told us that some Glyphs might have multiple charges; kind of like getting a pad with 4 temporary tattoos. There may also be special rare legendary items that have unlimited Glyph uses; kind of like getting a stamp device that lets you stamp on a specific Glyph over and over. Joppa also hinted that Glyphs might have a duration (long lasting; maybe days) and will eventually fade and you'll need to put on a new one.

    There will be 6 differerent Climate Types that a player will need protection from: Frigid, Scorching, Toxic, Anaerobic (No Oxygen), Pressure, and Wind Shear.

    Depending on which Effects you need protection from in the Area you will be adventuring, the player will need to decide if they want to stack all 6 body parts with Glyphs for the same type of protection, or if they need to balance some protection from one climate and some from another. The more intense the Climate, the more active protection you will need to lessen or even negate the effects of that Climate. And some areas may be under the effect of multiple Climate types: for example a Volcanic area may be Scorching, but also the air is Toxic from the Fumes coming from the melting rock. So you will need both types of Protection to navigate this area without negative debuffs and taking dmg.

    There will also be some Natural Acclimation protection that will build up as you are exposed to it. Staying in a Fridged area for a long time makes you more tolerant to the cold for example. This will max at 20 protection and will fade over time that you are not still in that environment.

    See these clips:

    - Cohh finds a Glyph and puts it on
    - Cohh learns about the Toxic nature of Cyrstals
    - Cohh learns that Natrually built Acclimation will fade over time
    - Joppa explains that it takes a few minutes of exposure for each point of Natural Acclimation

    Of note: There will also be gear that might have Acclimation bonus on them as well, so if you have a Helm of Breathing or some such you may not need to use as many Anaerobic Glyphs in an area with low Oxygen levels.

    • 1137 posts
    September 15, 2021 10:42 AM PDT

    I'm a firm believer in 1 DPS is more than 0 DPS.  What I mean by this, is that in every single MMO that I've played (even single player games) - the class that has the most survivability "utlimatley" can do the most damage... simply because you do 0 damage when you are dead.  A wizard that pulls threat and dies 10 seconds into a fight ends up doing less dmg than the tank.

    In the case of this game, if you have a DL, WAR and PAL in a party, and had to bet on which class could survive longer, I would put my money on the PAL.  If survivability were not a variable, the literal "Damge Per Second" between tank classes would be neglible. 


    This post was edited by Darch at September 15, 2021 10:44 AM PDT