I was listebing to some content creators and got to thinking "what would ever make me use 'progeny' to essentially give up my high level toon?"
Well, the wheels in my head started spinning....
What if the progeny let's you play a race-class combo that isn't "normal"
For example, I want to play a Halfling Enchanter or Halfling Summoner.......I can't.
But I think there are compelling lore reasons that make it sensible. I know it's going to be harder and there will be some greater challenges.
But what if I played a Halfling Druid and my descendant was a rebel and refused to follow in the normal and appropriate Halfling ways - he wanted to go and study something unknown to Halflings like wizardy.
But what if I had maxed out a Halfling Druid and an Elf Enchanter and got bored......I could use the progeny system to let my descendants (a new Halfling character) carry on the bloodline of his Halfling ancestors but follow the studies of their Elf friends
That would be a challenge with an incredible and prestigious reward and be a big motivator for switching to a new character
I was hoping you were talking about a race that isn't available at the start of the game. I still do not know if I would give up a high-level toon for just that. I would also want a stat increase and hopefully a noticeable one at that.
I still like AA like in Everquest better but, I love listening to new ideas.
I have liked progeny in some games but the time it takes to level to max in those games are a lot quicker than I hope for in Pantheon. For this reason, I am hoping for something different than what I have seen other games do.
What if instead of encouraged to reroll your same character you were encouraged to make alts. Something like let you make a clan, house, mini guild, etc. The encouragement given could be small or large depending on what the devs think will work.
Some example ideas of encouragement.
Not sure I like this idea but you could also have it so that a player instead of making an alt add another class to your character, basically a way to switch between classes instead of singing out and back in. Depending on the restrictions put in place this could be huge advantage that could evolve as you max out more characters.
To the OP I am not at all against the idea of letting people pick combos that were not originally allowed. I could see how people might find this worth it. I for one would not even consider starting over for such a small change.
It's an idea that has been kicked around for a long time now. Personally I think it is my ideal form of a "progeny" system and would prefer they go a route like this instead of possibly shelving/scrapping it entirely. I think there would be merit enough in having it around as something max level players could do, perhaps attached to quests of maxing reputations with various player races which would allow expanded race/class options (not limited based on what character(s) or classes you have maxed) for any new characters on the same server (and no need to "retire" anyone either).
To me there is enough "cool" factor or prestige to such a thing without it being at all something everyone has to do or otherwise some kind of "forced" power increase mechanic.
Like was mentioned, unlocking alternative race/class options through progeny has been discussed repeatedly over the years. Joppa commented on it a few years back saying he liked the idea.
While I appreciate the potential there, I'm unsure if that is much incentive for the type of players whom a remort system like progeny is targeting? It could be a nice incentive in addition to other things...
There are many possibilities. What seems almost certain is that the reward needs to be good enough to justify the developer time it will take and ideally allow them to use the feature in advertising. Otherwise, why bother?
Almost as clear is that the reward shouldn't be so good as to make a progenized character enough stronger that they will have a real advantage when trying to get groups. That would make progeny an almost mandatory grind in the eyes of too many players.
Possibilities (none original - we have been batting these around for a long time):
1. Allowing a race/class combination otherwise not allowed.
2. Allowing distinctive cosmetic options not otherwise available.
3. Allowing crafting combinations or other benefits not otherwise available.
4. Giving non overpowering bonuses to the use of at least one weapon or armour that the "ancestor" has mastered and can teach the progenized character.
5. Giving a non-overpowering attribute or ability benefit. Your ancestor's expert training is worth +1 in wisdom or maximum skill in alchemy or ......
Yes, these ideas have been around quite some time. Progeny ideas I like: -
The idea of not 'destroying' the original character to do the progeny thing, but of 'retiring' them to a crafting/vending role and even being able to bring them out of retirement when the progeny becomes high enough level to 'take over' the 'shop' the retired character ran (though the progeny would then 'retire' and maybe the coming-out-of-retirement could only be temporary for raids or something).
Allowing use of a particular inherited item (not a whole item type - I think that would be too much). Would be interesting for a progeny wizard to be able to use the magic sword they inherit from their warrior ancestor, for example.
Allowing progeny to craft their own choice and their ancestor's choice (assuming crafting is restricted to one type normally). Maybe getting a bonus to the ancestor's choice as well, like they grew up being trained by them.
The race/class of the ancestor (or ancestor's) being extra options to the progeny.
A slight stat boost appropriate to the stats of the ancestor.
Raidil said: Well a simple thought process is this shared bank with your main tune it's kind of like apparent in a kid You don't always inherit traits from your family strain that type of thing You don't always go into the same job as your family. But typically you have support and also has a teen You typically have access to your parents funds so you'd be able to choose one tune that would be able to be tied to the main tune that can share your bank account essentially and maybe even they're no drop items beyond this I don't think we need anything else. That would be more than effective on being a prodigy because you gain access to that items even if you would play with a friend which is where the prodigy thing came in you could still group with a friend a little bit of a bonus because you got access to the plat easily for doing stuff you need to do on your little tune with your buddy. So I could only link 2 toon this way.
Personally I think shared banking is a no-brainer these days without progeny even.
The need to use other players as go-betweens to get cash and gear from one character to another (in EQ and other older games) was always just an unnecessary inconvenience and risk. It didn't stop players sharing between alts, it just made it annoying.
The allowance for no drop items between progeny would be an interesting option, though, I guess.
I agree about shared banking under limited circumstances. Definitely if a second character visits the same branch of a bank. No if the second character visits a bank on the other side of the world, or the continent, or even the city. I prefer realism on this one not magic creating dozens of clone storage boxes. But that isn't a shared bank issue to me I don't think the *original* character should have access to his or her items at a different bank.
To me, mail is the preferred way that characters should exchange items. As in real life if people aren't in the same city. Subject to whatever delays, expenses and risks VR sees fit to impose. Including perhaps no mail between hostile or very distant locations.
I like the idea of heritage. The lore aspects are very interesting to me. But I'm personally not really warm on the ideo of Progeny. I have characters that I originally played in EQ that I still log on occasionally to run around old haunts. I invested so much in them that I really couldnt bring myself to retire them forever.
Another thing that I dont see a way around is how to incoroporate the idea of progeny into longevity of the game. A system could potentially be devoloped that is equitible for the original release content. But what happens when you release a series of expansions over years of time, that unlock new areas, and more importantly more levels?
One of significant reasons that people start alts is to do something else until the next expansion comes out. Then they switch back to their main and continue with his/her progression until they've capped out again. Then, back to the alts. Or make new alts. Consider this pattern of behavior in situations in which you've retired your main.
Say at release the benefits of progeny are available after leveling up 3 times. Ok, you do it 3 times in the original content. Now there's X-number of expansions over years of time. Do increment up the number of times Progeny can be utilized? Or are those who went all the way originally then stagnated, making the Progeny system a short term facet of gameplay (for their "main") that is irrelevant from that point on?
I just dont see how Progeny can be something that survives the test of time without a couple of things becoming true. Either,
A) It becomes a massive grind to achieve the benefits attributable to a race/class that you actually want to play as your main, or
B) It becomes a repetively massive grind as Progeny increments thru expansions so that you can keep playing the race/class combo you enjoy as your "main", or
C) The benefits are so insignificant that the massive grind to level multiple characters to get to the race/class combo you want as your "main" are not worthwhile.
Obviously mileage would vary, and those people that like playing multiple races and classes and don't care about shelving a character might actualy have a great time. But I suspect that audience is somewhat limited.
Im not sure if the idea I have off the back of this is possible in an MMO. But what if, instead of hybridization in progeny, rather the experience is as if playing an entirely different game....based on the available races.
This might be accidentally within the zeitgeist IRL. What I mean is, My previous idea regarding starting cities being a place where you learn about the race and learn to fight in the "gnomish" way because that is all you have around you for the first 10 levels or so, with other races being very far away, no tanks, no healers just a bunch of dps. you learn the game differently- then llearn it again when you interact with other races.
Now what if, when you progeny, you also experience the xenophobia inherent in other races, not just from the NPC's but also from other players. Building on the percepton system, what if, mechanically perhaps like drunkenness, when in the pressence of a known hated race, you the player are compelled to respond to the other player of that race in the same manner as the NPC's. There is some freedom of expression but your "hail" becomes "filthy Skar". It would be impossible but maybe a menu of available phrases like from a quest journal would pop up with choices, similar to the samsung watch health app for tracking food with its extensive library, or a fitbit. good bye would be 'get away you freak'. do you want to group? would be: you are useless to us, try to stay out of the way. The player non-progeny would have those choices of responses and would have to pick one. But the progeny, would only hear the constant jibes...and the pantheon world would have an entirely different flavor because the subtle feel-good endorphins would be gotten from those friendly to the progeny race, culture, dress, manerisms, lore- immersed if you will. Thanks to the Fourth wall, safely able to remove yourself from that and either think about it or, do it again! with a different race. similar to how folks would play oh, just the thief line of quests in Oblivion, or just the assasin line.
I'd like to see some additional skills passed to the progeny - maybe with a little twist or somehow enhanced skills that already existed.
Enhancer -> Wizard : Flaming/Frost/Arcane weapon, mana regen buff
Warrior -> Wizard: Heavy armor profficiency, arcane cleave
Wizard -> Rogue: Invisibility/Hush spells
Cleric -> Wizard: Self-heal/protective barrier
I was also wondering: Will there be any difference between changing your toon to progeny as soon as you hit the level cap vs after a ton of grinding, skills mastering etc after that?