How should one role play in this MMO?
Sociopath: I alone matter, I get joy from causing others to fail.
Greed: I want it all to myself and will employ selfish and entitled behavior.
Power trip: I derive pleasure from controlling others through lies, coercion or tricks.
Misery : I am unhappy, therefore seeing other players enjoy themselves causes rage in me, and I'll put a stop to their enjoyment.
What a s&@# game that would be.
How in the world is VR going to ensure that the population in Terminus doesn't become a cesspool of grief and troll droppings?
Can an open world exist in today's gaming environment?
The concern is real. This may affect the success or failure of the game.
How could anyone assure that this environment is fun? Can we promise to behave? Can we trust others to behave?
How do people get groups to behave in positive and meaningful ways?
I'm sorry if the answer is easy and I'm wasting your time.
But I'm wishing for some variation of the following.
1. VR owns it. They decide what the rules are and how lenient or strict the enforcement of the rules should be.
2. Population control. VR decides how many people should be on a server. This allows for tuning as the game grows.
3.Contested content within zones. VR can act the god and smite any quest or dungeon path and fill it with gerbils if they want.
4. Logs and reports. Data can be gathered, if data shows behavior they don't think benefits the happiness of the accounting department then they can add or subtract content or rules. Remove items obtained, turn your player into a hairless rat for a month or two, shamed in the world of Terminus.
5. Banning and deleting accounts. Anonymously jumping onto the net and acting a fool is a new and strange thing for humans. We don't have a strong history of experience with anonymity. It can tend to allow people to think there are no
consequences to their actions.
But the power of a vengeful god is a decent deterrent. VR could ban accounts and make an example in public.
6. Legal terms of service. Lawyers, we all have a few jokes about how terrible lawyers are, but still they're as important and vital to life as fecal bacteria, we just can't live without them. If someone or a group of someone's go out of their way to damage the world that VR is trying to build then go for their wallets and throats. Make the statement early and often. Mess with our world in a manner that turns potential customers away and we will defend our property.
If you're a little older, and have enough experience in life, you know the sting of mistakes and the repercussions that can follow.
My advice VR, is don't be afraid to proclaim your authority. You want a game that's accessible and fun? One were we keep coming back and paying a monthly fee? Then let the trolls and fools know who runs the show.
Edited for language
This has been discussed many multiple times. Those threads should be easy enough to look up.
Here is a general, catch all quote:
Kilsin said:
We have policies in regards to in-game behaviour in place and when we get around to officially launching the game they may be published but there is a good chance that they will remain internal only for VR staff to go by when dealing with in-game incidents.
This discussion though really is a dead end and while I appreciate everyone's concern, we can't really comment on it officially and probably never will be able too. The only way people will most likely find out is when they break the in-game rules and have punishments issued.
As I have said previously, it will take teamwork from everyone to help police and control these situations, community action is more powerful than many of you may think and when it fails or isn't enough, we can intervene if and when required.
StoneFish said:How should one role play in this MMO?
Sociopath: I alone matter, I get joy from causing others to fail.
Greed: I want it all to myself and will employ selfish and entitled behavior.
Power trip: I derive pleasure from controlling others through lies, coercion or tricks.
Misery : I am unhappy, therefore seeing other players enjoy themselves causes rage in me, and I'll put a stop to their enjoyment.
What a s&@# game that would be.
I'd like to introduce you to EVE Online, a very successful MMO which has been going strong for over 14 years now.
Vandraad said:I'd like to introduce you to EVE Online, a very successful MMO which has been going strong for over 14 years now.
Swing and a miss sunshine.
That adds nothing to what I wanted to discuss. Apple and oranges with the EVE online game.
I want a clear set of rules, I want them prominent in the introduction of new players and the enforcement of the rules.
What I don't want to do is spend half my playing time to be some effort to avoid trolls, and trolls have been given a fertile breeding ground with the anonymity the net provides.
StoneFish said:Swing and a miss sunshine.
StoneFish then rages the rules were used against him for saying something deemed sexist by a random GM. Does he enjoy his ban?
Jobeson said:StoneFish said:Swing and a miss sunshine.
StoneFish then rages the rules were used against him for saying something deemed sexist by a random GM. Does he enjoy his ban?
Thank you. That was placed specifically to see when and who would comment! Wonderful. So how was the dialogue tarnished? Feels a little like siblings in a scuffle, correct? "But mom, he hit me first, he was teasing me first". So unfair....
Now how do we get to the point where hypothetical insinuating that the person would rage about a rule? Does the person clearly using antagonizing language know the rules? Have they been warned? Have they been informed that this type of behavior has placed them on a list for naughty peeps? What are the rules?
But let's just have faith that this time it will all somehow work out fine and people will not just pile-on and mock and belittle and proclaim, with vastly stoic and forthright conviction, that the other person is a tool and a twit for even suggesting we aim for a civil environment.
FYI, Vandraad was my target because they seem like the kind that can weather a jab just fine
StoneFish said:FYI, Vandraad was my target because they seem like the kind that can weather a jab just fine
I totally can. I pointed you to EVE Online because you can role play any one of those types of players and not be in violation of any rules. Those types, sociopath, greed, powertrip, and misery, can be played on the individual, corporation and alliance level. But EVE was designed to allow such player types. Can those same approaches be played in Pantheon? Absolutely, on a PvP server. That would be the line where, on one side, you can do all that while on the other you cannot (though you might be able to pull off Greed)
So swing and a miss? Not really. You just didn't think hard enough about it.
So in this PvE game, we can then discuss the degrees and variabilities for the types of behavior the community would prefer to discourage.
Greed? Sure there will be greed, it's expected and unless somehow done in a damaging way for the server just a normal but unsavory element.
Sociopath behavior? Is a reporting system to be used? An official or unofficial one? The swat team or the neighborhood watch?
The swat team cost money...
Are there any players here that would pay for a server that had a strick law or rule set? Extra cash going toward full time mediators and admins willing to police and roam the land ensuring that there is a freedom from harassment? Feels a little soft to want such a thing until you factor in the finite time we have to be in-game. I'm a grown man with a good brain and I fear little but the passage of time. I have a company to run and a house to fix up and girlfriend to love, I don't want to spend time during a recreational break having to deal with pinheads. I want to pay someone else to deal with them for me. Or have a rule book to toss around.
Let's use an example just for fun. Let's see if some rules can be broken right now.
I will pay a bounty: if you come across Vandraad in Terminus and they are gathering... mushrooms say, and if you can race around and deny their efforts at obtaining mushrooms for as long as they continue until they storm off, I'll compensate you with all the coins I carry.
What rule have I broken? Please ignore the instinct to assume Vandraad deserves such treatment, though they do ;)
Hang on- *brushes up on "Pilgrims Progress"*
Part of the problem I see is Manpower. To even remotely police such behavior would take alot of "overhead" man hours. And the power behind the interpretation of "play nice" can be too powerful in the hands of a Dev.
Also, there are many shades tints of grey in Misery, greed, etc that everyone exhibits or rather is comfortable with in their own opinion and on any given day can be overstated. (the old joke: the ONE time... and they call you a...)
The readily course of action is various loot/lore/bind limitations as discussed (few static spawn points for instance, Fion in blackrose keep as example) and from a social perspective, Social ostracism.
StoneFish said:Let's use an example just for fun. Let's see if some rules can be broken right now.
I will pay a bounty: if you come across Vandraad in Terminus and they are gathering... mushrooms say, and if you can race around and deny their efforts at obtaining mushrooms for as long as they continue until they storm off, I'll compensate you with all the coins I carry.
What rule have I broken? Please ignore the instinct to assume Vandraad deserves such treatment, though they do ;)
You have broken no rules at all. Joppa has stated, many times, that players don't 'own' any content other than the specific NPC they are currently engaging or have under active crowd control. It stands to reason this applies to harvest nodes. Only the node I'm actually working on is 'mine'. Anybody else can come around and look for the same nodes and if they get to them before I do, good for them. By the same reason, while they are working on a node, I can go get a different one. It's mutually applicable. I wouldn't get mad and storm off becuase I already accept that I cannot claim any node, or nodes, as belonging to me.
Then the bounty stands as follows.
I Stonefish will pay bounty to anyone that disrupts the activities of Vandraad. Coin, items and effort depending on outcome. Bonus bounty for video capture of Vandraad looking fine accepting that their efforts have been thwarted in whatever activity they were planning to undergo.
StoneFish said:Then the bounty stands as follows.
I Stonefish will pay bounty to anyone that disrupts the activities of Vandraad. Coin, items and effort depending on outcome. Bonus bounty for video capture of Vandraad looking fine accepting that their efforts have been thwarted in whatever activity they were planning to undergo.
I invite you to try, good luck finding me. :)
StoneFish said:Then the bounty stands as follows.
I Stonefish will pay bounty to anyone that disrupts the activities of Vandraad. Coin, items and effort depending on outcome. Bonus bounty for video capture of Vandraad looking fine accepting that their efforts have been thwarted in whatever activity they were planning to undergo.
I would simply put you on ignore and encourage others to do so as well. Community policing at work. You aren't breaking any rules though. Being annoying isn't against the rules.
StoneFish said:FYI, Vandraad was my target because they seem like the kind that can weather a jab just fine
That defense wouldnt fly IRL, you would get fired at work if the wrong person took offense. If you are trying to make rules for civility be prepared for a work like environment. "Mess with our world in a manner that turns potential customers away and we will defend our property" That applies to everyone who heard you, not just the target.
Like all of the other threads pushing for enforced behavior they never follow the scope of what they say. If you are afraid of open world games play games that focus on instances. Everything in an open world game is contested content. Asking them to enforce some vague idea of behaving because you are not happy with MDD being the system they are designing the game with sounds like you are trying to mess with the world in a manner that turns potential customers away.
VR is largely keeping things internal. They will have a list of hardline rules for players like every other MMO when it is necessary. (edit: pre alpha is not necessary)
philo said:This has been discussed many multiple times. Those threads should be easy enough to look up.
Here is a general, catch all quote:
Kilsin said:
We have policies in regards to in-game behaviour in place and when we get around to officially launching the game they may be published but there is a good chance that they will remain internal only for VR staff to go by when dealing with in-game incidents.
This discussion though really is a dead end and while I appreciate everyone's concern, we can't really comment on it officially and probably never will be able too. The only way people will most likely find out is when they break the in-game rules and have punishments issued.
As I have said previously, it will take teamwork from everyone to help police and control these situations, community action is more powerful than many of you may think and when it fails or isn't enough, we can intervene if and when required.
As Philo kindly pointed out, this has been discussed many times and at length across multiple threads, as such, I will need to close this one down as we don't want to spread information across too many threads, it leads to clutter, confusion and makes it more difficult for people to find what they are looking for.