By trade I am in software development. Though, I help run a massive internet security company, not a gaming company, I know the effort that goes in to making software. I mention this because I have being thinking about the cycles VR must be spending on the Perception System.
The Perception System seems really cool. I am certainly looking forward to it. But recently I wondered, is it worth it? The first time we experience it, I have no doubt we will all “ooh” and “awe”. We will love it. But will that last? Will there be reply value for alts? Or, will we already know where all the things are that we should “perceive”? I wonder if, after experiencing the Perception System for 10, 20 or 30 levels, will we not find it as interesting? Is so, my question is, is it worth it?
Obviously VR feels it’s worth it, they are rolling it out. I would be curious to know the amount of time, resources and dev cycles spent on this system. Due to my job, I am constantly in scrum meetings about cutting product features to meet deadlines and budgets. It’s a never ending internal battle that I am sure VR has every day. As awesome as the Perception System is, I do ponder the need for a system that might not have a lot of value after a few experiences. But, perhaps I am way off and it will turn out to be the key differentiator from other MMO’s. I am not making an predictions, I could be way off. Just makes me wonder.
I have wondered myself.
If it is leveraging a lot of the task/quest system, and I imagine it is, then that's good.
If it is intended as a much more immersive and mysterious 'replacement' for the modern MMO quest 'guide' system (lighted trails and floating exclamation remarks) then that's good.
If it is a much more accessible and organic way to uncover and absorb the lore (that most people usually ignore) then that's good.
Personally, I think it will be something most players encounter only in a superficial way (the pings), but I think that will *still* be valuable as it will give a taste of lore and intrigue they wouldn't usually bother with.
And I think it will be something those, like me, who *want* to get into the lore, but usually can't bring themselves to take the time reading the books they find in game, will appreciate greatly.
Those that just want 'the game info' so they can more efficiently progress might not really appreciate it, but at least might use it rather than a 3rd party Wiki in some instances. "Head east until you get the 'cool breeze' ping, then head north using your active perception until you notice a shiny key".
Those that value immersion and the enhancement that gives to every aspect of the game will think it is worthwhile. Those that just take it in subconsciously and feel having a mystical "dungeon master" type insight is cool will subconsciously find it worthwhile.
disposalist said:And I think it will be something those, like me, who *want* to get into the lore, but usually can't bring themselves to take the time reading the books they find in game, will appreciate greatly.
This statement got me very excited. I didn’t think about it from that perspective. I am this person you described.
IMO:
Evidently, it's changing. From the March 2021 Producer's Letter:
" 6. Perception System fleshed out. We’ve seen the basics. Time to add in the skill framework, Tome of Keeping and path(s) of progression. "
Afaik, this is the first time there's been any hint of paths of progression.
If there's progression, it won't just be about reading books of Lore or skills/stat/level checks based on proximity. At least, it seems unlikely that's all there would be.
But then, if that's not all it is, and there are paths of progression, how could it not have an impact on all, some, many or one game loop, directly?
It would be really nice to find out what their plans are, as in the past it was a very clear public design goal that Perception would NOT impact combat, crafting, harvesting, or similar. Now it.. might?
That changes the entire mechanic from maybe-optional to maybe-required. Seeing a complete turnabout in design goals after 7 years is.. surprising, to me. Much like climbing.
From my understanding it will be replacing the umpteen quests other MMO's tend to go with. If there was no perception system and a very scarce questing system I think it would turn off a lot of people (myself included) from the game.
It is the system I personally am most excited about!
Adrenicus said:From my understanding it will be replacing the umpteen quests other MMO's tend to go with. If there was no perception system and a very scarce questing system I think it would turn off a lot of people (myself included) from the game.
It is the system I personally am most excited about!
There have always been normal quests and perception based quests planned. They are different.
Vjek said:
It would be really nice to find out what their plans are, as in the past it was a very clear public design goal that Perception would NOT impact combat, crafting, harvesting, or similar. Now it.. might?
That changes the entire mechanic from maybe-optional to maybe-required. Seeing a complete turnabout in design goals after 7 years is.. surprising, to me. Much like climbing.
We will see how it ends up impacting the things you listed but I think we should all be able to decipher what VR tells us at this point. All of that "optional", "no tangible benefits" yada yada has always, obviously, not been accurate. We have been shown otherwise on multiple occasions regardless of what we are told. There will be more benefit than simply just lore. Maybe just exp? Maybe greater benefits like mastery points, access to areas, perception based locks etc. It has never been optional as far as players will be concerned and we should all understand that.
I expect you are one who has been following closely enough, and has common sense enough, to be able to decipher what we have been told over the years Vjek. Perception is Joppas baby so it is taking center stage at the expense of things that were more weighted towards Brad like the matchaking system.
I've often felt this as well, that the perception system is holding back the development of the rest of the game. Maybe it's because it doesn't interest me that much, dunno. I think part of it is we can say we just want the game that there's so much that we are willing to give up to get just the game out the door.
philo said: ... We will see how it ends up impacting the things you listed but I think we should all be able to decipher what VR tells us at this point. All of that "optional", "no tangible benefits" yada yada has always, obviously, not been accurate. ...
IMO:
It's intensely frustrating having to decipher anything. We are told one thing for months or years, but the expectation is that the opposite is true? :| Not ideal.
We've also been (apparently) told that the Perception skill cap won't be level gated. But if it provides progression paths, how could it not be level gated, if it now impacts the combat loop? These logical inconsistencies are just.. tedious. smh.
Perception System fleshed out. We’ve seen the basics. Time to add in the skill framework, Tome of Keeping and path(s) of progression.
To me, that means paths of progression *of the Perception system* not of the combat-related game.
If you feel it implies something else, perhaps ask someone at VR to clarify rather than assume the worst.
Sweety: (snip) The Perception System seems really cool. I am certainly looking forward to it. But recently I wondered, is it worth it? ... I wonder if, after experiencing the Perception System for 10, 20 or 30 levels, will we not find it as interesting?
You could ask the same about playability of quests and zones, not just perception. If everyone accepts that there will be specific quests types (collect, kill, make, explore, faction, etc.) and each type will be repeated, then the perception system is not very different.
Personally I will find it interesting to have something that my character notices pointed out to me when I am adventuring, especially if others didnt get a ping, or got different messages because of their perception skill. All adds to the mystery and that cant be a bad thing. Perception could lead to more than just lore investigation and can generate intrigue that cannot be easily produced from quest dialogues alone.
What about a perception ping that goes off as you are talking to a npc: "you notice Bob cover an object on the desk behind him", which wouldn't ping unless you were skilled in it. This could lead to an object that leads to another quest or lore investigation or something.
There seems to be lots you can do with this mechanic above dedicated lore mechanics.
How about a crafter who is skilled in carpentry skills and while travelling through a wood got; "You notice some trees to the east that seem almost natural but must be coppiced in some way". Investigating might lead to a rare harvest or some skill yet unknown or a secret glade, etc. etc. A non perception based character could easily run by and not "see" this.
What I mean is that this could be leveraged in a multitude of ways which should keep things fresh and interesting for players. I personally think perception will be an intriguing part of game play and well worth the effort in its production and player participation.
If you dont like it you can ignore it, but I think it will add to the game and worth the development time, in the same way that not all players are interested in PvP but there will be development that will be undertaken for players wanting such mechanics or raiding for that matter.
I happen to be one of the people who is most excited about the perception system. Lore in MMORPGS never really interests me because I don't have time to spend hours reading a giant wall of text. This is why I think it's really important that the perception system continue to provide "SMALL" snippets of information when I am exploring. To me, exploring is my favorite part of these games, and having a "GM" behind the scenes is going to make me want to learn about Terminus much more than I normally would.
VR has no choice but to put every effort into the Perception system. It's too important, to them, to put it aside. Perception has been hyped since the earliest days of development, moreso than many other mechanics that are supposed to set this game apart from all others. If they leave it out, what is left then that is unique to Pantheon? Don't say climbing becuase other games have had climbing a decade ago.
disposalist said:Perception System fleshed out. We’ve seen the basics. Time to add in the skill framework, Tome of Keeping and path(s) of progression.
To me, that means paths of progression *of the Perception system* not of the combat-related game. ...
IMO:
What's your opinion on how paths of progression, of the Perception system, would be implemented?
Specifically, in your opinion, disposalist, what game loops would such paths of progression, of the Perception system, affect?
vjek said:disposalist said:Perception System fleshed out. We’ve seen the basics. Time to add in the skill framework, Tome of Keeping and path(s) of progression.
To me, that means paths of progression *of the Perception system* not of the combat-related game. ...
IMO:
What's your opinion on how paths of progression, of the Perception system, would be implemented?
Specifically, in your opinion, disposalist, what game loops would such paths of progression, of the Perception system, affect?
It's just my opinion, but I took "Path(s) Of Progression" to meaning within the Perception System. Like you acquire some quest through the perception system, and their are multiple parts (progression) to that quest. Much like you do a perception quest and get a shield, 5 levels later you get another perception quest based on you having that shield that upgrades that shield, and so on.
Of course this is just the way I interpretted it.
Admittedly I don't know a lot about the Perception System, mostly because we have only been shown small bits and pieces. However, after reading all the replies to my post, I am actually encouraged. I hadn’t considered the Lore side of things. Disposalist and a few others pointed out that it could keep us up to date on Lore without having to speed hour and hours of Lore reading. Let's be honest even some of us that are "old school" players like myself find that boring.
Also, the notion that the Perception System Could guide us through quest lines is intriguing. I image this is similar to being led to a "quest hub" area, a location in which you find a vendor, perhaps a flight path and armor repair. It would be nice to not have my hand held to those locations (even better if those locations don't exists half the time). And instead of a yellow glowing line, or a bright red arrow pointing the direction I should walk, we "perceive" something off in the distance, perhaps an oddly placed boulder on the ground, and we move it find an item the starts a quest. Anyway, something along those lines has great potential.
vjek said:disposalist said:Perception System fleshed out. We’ve seen the basics. Time to add in the skill framework, Tome of Keeping and path(s) of progression.
To me, that means paths of progression *of the Perception system* not of the combat-related game. ...
IMO:
What's your opinion on how paths of progression, of the Perception system, would be implemented?
Specifically, in your opinion, disposalist, what game loops would such paths of progression, of the Perception system, affect?
We know that being a Keeper will progress. You will start off not being a good one. You will get better.
Perhaps it will progress in different ways depending on the Perception stories you follow.
We know that perception stories will vary - have distinct 'paths' - uncovering different lore - depending upon the choices you make - I think it's most likely this that VR means when talking about paths of progression in perception.