Looking at what I can see for class skills this will not be a problem in PRoF. In almost every other game one of the biggest things that starts problems on both sides is the we most pull more AoE where loosing AoE dps. This tank sucks cant tank more than one group ect. I would like to see them really limit AoE dps so that the Pull more will not become the norm. Pull faster I am all for but lets keep CC and mob spliting single pulls for the win the play style. Stop mass AOE farming at any level it just leads to resorce hogging.
AoE will be a thing but not the only tactic and I dont think it will work like other games. First if you have watched the videos, there is many tools to keep mobs under CC as the team focus on mobs. Also, AI has NPCs doing everything from BAF to just fleeing at random point in a fight. Or focusing their attacks on players other then that tank taunting. Some mobs will go after the healer no matter what you do. Making the team adjusting tactics on the fly. If you were trying to AE a large number of mobs in this game. It would be chaos. AE maybe a small group of mobs, sure it will have it place. AI is too good to chain pull large numbeers.
Is that a Bard in your profile pciture? I remember seeing a Bard pull and solo like half the zone in, I think it was Plane of Innovation in the Planes of Power expansion. I didn't play any of the expansions after that so I don't know if that particular problem got better or worse.
I agree, though, and really hope AOEs are either target limited or have pretty steep diminishing returns when hitting more than a few targets. Players will always find ways to exploit abilities in unforseen ways. Gotta get ahead of that whenever possible.
I will admit My go to farm at one point was huge AOE pulls in Durlak Harbor HoH and a few others. They also NERFED me to the stone age Because of this I bring it up now so they can code hard limits say Quad kite not Bard 40 Kite.
Edit To add that pulling big chunks of Dulak Harbor if other players where in zone would you get you a vaction 3 days for greifing and i did not train the other group I left them alone.
Vixx said:I will admit My go to farm at one point was huge AOE pulls in Durlak Harbor HoH and a few others. They also NERFED me to the stone age Because of this I bring it up now so they can code hard limits say Quad kite not Bard 40 Kite.
Emergent gameplay was also something Brad loved. Pulling 1/2 a zone was not something SoE thought would happen. This game will have its own emergent gameplay.
Its not stopping Emergent game play IT IS fixing stuff they can Forsee and they believe is not in line with how VR sees the game there building early. If VR wants people AOE farming masses of Mobs it is there game. Fix now over nerf later is always better for the game and players
They built an entire tank class around being the top AOE threat with the ability to spread dots from other players. Your suggestion sounds like a wish to undo that. So you are correct it is not emergent gameplay. It is fully intended gameplay they are building into the game with one class in particular being the ideal choice.
With that said I would love for AI to be good enough to have intelligent creatures be cautious and stay at range or flee for help from an obvious trap. Camps don't have to mean your party doesn't move around. It is just an accepted hunting ground/particular spawn. I am all for distracting and splitting NPCs from eachother, but blindly chasing the puller can be a bit silly.
Should a lone PC be able to lure an NPC around a corner? Of course! Chase the lone intruder.
Should a party in clear view be able to lead a lone NPC into a bloody room full of bodies? No absolutely not.
Would (heroic) you chase a thief around a public street corner? Probably
Would you chase a thief down an alley because he foolishly hid in a dumpster? Possibly, likely cautiously.
Would you chase a thief through a large heavily armed group of enemy NPCs staring at your approach? Of course not!
I hope VR puts thought into their AI system for pulling. Get the intelligent NPCs to act rationally wherever possible.
Dumber creatures should simply follow you into an easy kill zone though. Gather all the piranas you can find for an easy slaughter.
Jobeson said:They built an entire tank class around being the top AOE threat with the ability to spread dots from other players. Your suggestion sounds like a wish to undo that. So you are correct it is not emergent gameplay. It is fully intended gameplay they are building into the game with one class in particular being the ideal choice.
Let's not hyperbole thing too much. Direlord is far to be built around aoe/dotspread toolkit. It's part of their tool but not the fundations of the class (which is more likely : chain using shield-less siphonning tank).
I agree about the IA part. But I fear short term memory of IA will lead to safe line of sight spots for group members even if they crossed eyesight 30s ago.
I dont think they need to undo the Direlord I said hard limits on how many you can get in that AoE is that 4 is that 10 is that 40 thats up to VR. but seeing that mutiple other games have nerfed classes over this after years of it being in game I thought I would bring it up.
Here is the Dire Lord ability you speak of copy pasted from the main site
Splatter
Spread a detrimental effect on an enemy to 4 additional enemies within a short distance.
hard capped at 4
I think AoE's should be dangerous. Powerfull, but dangerous. Especially if they have the potential to do waves of damage to multiple targets.
I think they should be so dangerous that they are rarely used and if the caster or group is in the wake of an AoE, they all get damaged by the AoE. A loose cannon, if used almost guarantees a wipe every time.
I also think said "AoE groups" should be one of awe and finesse. Any group capable of intentionally doing "AoE group" stuff is at the apex of playerability of their class, highly skilled players. Anyone invited to an "AoE group" should consider themselves as having been "given the nod" or acknowledged as being good from reputation.
"For example, limiting AoE effects to X mobs feels artificial."
this is fantasy your talking Magic and well thats Magic it already breaks realism or weapons and any one that studies matrial weapons will tell you that even small cleaves or AoE are rarely of benifit or have any realism to them.