Forums » Harvesting

How do you envision harvesting ingame?

    • 794 posts
    January 22, 2021 7:59 AM PST

    There are several different styles of harvesting. What would you like to see and what do you hope is not integrated, when it comes to how harvesting looks like?

    I'll just list several things and highlight which I prefer. I will not discuss harvesting tools or other things that might influence stats or yields. As that's fuel for another topic.

    * Stand near node and harvest by targetting it.

    * Clicking 1 time on the node and watching your character act out multiple harvesting attempts.

    * Clicking 1 time on the node and obtaining the full yield in 1 go. With your character doing 1 harvesting emote.

    * Clicking several times and obtaining several bits of yield with each attempt. 

    * Clicking several times and obtaining 1 yield. 

    * Clicking several times and which each harvest succes, the node's appearance changes (decreases in mass or in visual effect). With consecutive yields or one total yield.

    * Different emotes for different nodes

    * Your character displaying 1 emote for different harvesting nodes. (added it in, just for completion)

    pro's and con's or other reflections are welcome


    This post was edited by Barin999 at January 22, 2021 9:30 AM PST
    • 13 posts
    January 22, 2021 8:10 AM PST

    I would rather click on the node once and as long as i am not interrupted then the harvest keeps coming in until empty.  

    • 1327 posts
    January 22, 2021 8:42 AM PST

    I would like to see harvesting be an interactive experience.  Similar to crafting, I would like to see harvesting having a list of tools and skills to use in order to complete the harvest process.  How well you do in the process will dictate what you get out of the harvest.

    I would also have nodes only be visible to the characters with the lore/experience to see them.

    • 11 posts
    January 22, 2021 6:19 PM PST

    I'd rather click on the node once, to harvest, I like Trasak's notes: like list of tools, and skill in harvesting. Especially like the nodes only visible to those who have the skill/lore/experience to find/see them.

    I enjoy seeing some visual representation of progress if we're talking about multiple emotes showing "harvesting progress" (nodes shrinking per emote, higher the skill the faster you are at harvesting, and the more likely to get bonus quality/quantities/special items potentially. GW2 is pretty good at this aspect.

    • 794 posts
    January 23, 2021 11:22 AM PST

    Titanias said:

    I would rather click on the node once and as long as i am not interrupted then the harvest keeps coming in until empty.  

    Does that mean you're ok with looking at your character while you as a player are doing nothing during that timeperiod (+- 5 seconds)?

    Your idea of harvesting would be: You see a node, you approach it and click (left or right click) it ones. 

    What are your pro's and con's for chosing this method or why not the others? (just asking out of curiosity)

    Would you be ok with moving around the node or would you prefer that one needs to be stationary while harvesting?

    Do you mean to say that it requires some form of concentration and your surrounding or other detriments could disrupt your concentration, halting the process? 

    • 794 posts
    January 23, 2021 11:30 AM PST

    Trasak said:

    I would like to see harvesting be an interactive experience.  Similar to crafting, I would like to see harvesting having a list of tools and skills to use in order to complete the harvest process.  How well you do in the process will dictate what you get out of the harvest.

    I would also have nodes only be visible to the characters with the lore/experience to see them.

    It could be me, but it seems like your missing the point of the question. But perhaps elaborate with an example, so I understand what's in your mind?

    Having tools with you or equipped, or having skills doesn't directly translate into the motion of harvesting. At least not in my book. 

    As I'm reading your reply, you're saying that you want harvesting to have a minigame by its own. You approach a node, (depending on the background/progression/choices of your character) and ...what happens after? 

    Can you click it 1 time and a minigame pops up? Or is it rather small in order to keep an eye on your surroundings? Or are you talking about tagging a node and working through a timing-minigame. Where you need to aim/measure/react/push several times in order to 'complete' the circle and receive your yield? This in 1 or multiple successions per node?

    If nodes are not seen by all. How would it look like for another player to watch someone harvesting, while they cannot see the node that the person is harvesting? Is he harvesting in mid air? Or is that other player watching someone else stand still? Or is the node visible but it does not dissappear eventhough the harvester was succesfull and got a full yield? And as this other player approaches the recently depleted node, they can only see but not interact with the inactive node?

     

    • 11 posts
    January 25, 2021 1:50 PM PST

    For me, I would like to see a one-click and watching my toon act out multiple harvests while standing near the node and not moving. Unless it is a single source say a flower than of course a single click and action.

    My reason for not moving would be it's harder to pick something or swing a tool and hit the node and no-good harvester would do that.

    True to any harvester there should be a tool but on the same token a possibility of an alt tool say I am gathering herbs well there are tools made just for that but in a pinch, you could use your bare hands or a pair scissor, even a knife but with the alts you will not get as much or as good of a quality.

    As far as having to have the skill to see the node yes and no. ok, I should always be able to see things like herbs and flowers or trees and such, maybe I can’t identify them all, but I can see them. And tell the difference in them. Same with other nods rocks and such, but say I go into a cave well then only a trained harvester would know which is just a rock or limestone, mineral or metal. Even on the outside, this may hold true.

    Lastly, I think I should be able to harvest most anything but with a skill get better quality or more quantity so long as I have a tool or and alt that would work but on the same hand possible side effects if I don’t have the skill say I don’t know herbalism but I see a bunch of herbs or flowers

    and think I can just use my knife to cut them and collect, BUT LOW AND BEHOLD damn it poisonous and now I am poisoned. Or I don’t have skills that would give me the common knowledge of say using a weapon so for me swing a pickaxe would be at a very large disadvantage I could even hurt my self

     

    • 57 posts
    January 27, 2021 6:22 AM PST

    I'd like to add a bit more to this if I may.  Was thinking about it while playing EQ2.

    Would you like harvesting nodes to be random (ala EQ2) or you choose what to harvest (ala FF14)?

    For those who don't play FF14, essentially when you chose a node to harvest (wood, bush, or rock) a window comes up that shows you what can be harvested from that node/source.

    I kind of like the system where I can choose what to harvest from a node.  Beats wasting time trying to get 10 lion meat from a random animal den for QHO AAAARGH!!@!!!

    • 42 posts
    January 29, 2021 10:15 AM PST

    Please no interactive-mini-game. Because grinding resource nodes is already a dull process. Do you really mine an ore vein because its' fun? I'm going to guess likely not....and adding some fancy animation or a mini-game is not going to automatically make gathering FUN. Every crafter (or gold grinder) subjects themselves to the painfully dull process of gathering because it's a means to an end.

     

    Click on node, perform gather anim, return yield. Keep it simple.

     

     

    • 57 posts
    January 29, 2021 10:53 AM PST

    Jiub said:

    Please no interactive-mini-game. Because grinding resource nodes is already a dull process. Do you really mine an ore vein because its' fun? I'm going to guess likely not....and adding some fancy animation or a mini-game is not going to automatically make gathering FUN. Every crafter (or gold grinder) subjects themselves to the painfully dull process of gathering because it's a means to an end.

     

    Click on node, perform gather anim, return yield. Keep it simple.

     

     

     

    Fair point, but many of them also have ways to ... circumvent that boredom.  And I'm not talking watching Netflix.

    • 42 posts
    January 29, 2021 2:19 PM PST

    Sometimes the dull-bordeom of harvesting nodes has it's charm, I can take a break from cereberal mechanics (like dungeon running) and just zone out to music, or literally netflix, while I go around and mindlessly harvest nodes.

    • 57 posts
    January 29, 2021 3:25 PM PST

    Jiub said:

    Sometimes the dull-bordeom of harvesting nodes has it's charm, I can take a break from cereberal mechanics (like dungeon running) and just zone out to music, or literally netflix, while I go around and mindlessly harvest nodes.

    Oh yes, definitely!  So you like the randomness that EQ2 nodes have?  Where you harvest a bush node and can get like, 5 different materials from it, or would you like one material for each node type of thing (one meaning one type such as iron, not one numerical material harvested).

    • 42 posts
    January 29, 2021 5:06 PM PST

    Yea! I like the ability for the yield to suprise you. Like if your fishing, you might get a rare resource/ingredient like "salmon roe" that's hard to get rather than a salmon. As long as the material is related to the node's archetype; I'm fine with that :)

    • 16 posts
    March 12, 2021 10:52 AM PST

    Personally i don't think the node needs to shrink or anything fancy like that.  A regular animation for each gathering node type would also be enough for me, I would rather the development time go into the systems themselvs and then we can worrie about animations at the very very end of development :D   

    As far as the process, I think one click to start and then a choice of a few buttons would be fun, it does not have to be a full blown mini-game experience ( I think that would be better for Crafting skills only to be honest) however having a cast bar that finishes no matter what, with a couple buttons to hit in the 5 or 10 second window to try and get 'just a little higher' yeild would be cool.  And it would sate both sides. just wait for time or click a couple buttons to try  and get an edge, its up to you.  

    Having to equip tools that help with gathering is, also something I would like. Between that and your skill level on the character the value from above can change, giving some depth to the prep stage of the activity same as when you are going to go grind mobs and such. 

     

    • 364 posts
    April 6, 2021 12:11 AM PDT

    What I expect and what I hope for are sadly two very different ideas.

    I expect a far more generic crafting system with minigames for harvesting.  Ideally climbing up to small plateaus on a cliff side to mine, chop, or gather rare plants.  Most mundane resources are easy to find on the ground.  I think the minigame will get old fast, but finding the nodes would be interesting. 

     

    What I hope for is to have harvesting run a large portion of the economy where minigames dont really exist.  Stand by the node, click, see short animation.  I want the "minigame" to be traveling back and processing the goods.  Leave the actual minigames for crafting itself.  Similar to the above finding nodes and gathering them would be simple, but not the main way resources are gathered.  I hope the harvesting skills are important for salvaging every dropped item.  Some items could be harvested by multiple skills making the players decide what they focus on.  Not just gear but mundane drops as well should be harvested.  Don't vendor the bones, process them into powder properly for maximum value.  I hope NPC vendors give the players a clear loss in value for goods.  Make it so traveling back to outposts is a clear investment worth participating in. 

    I am saddened by the idea of specialized harvesting and hope they let everyone do every harvest to make the economy focused on resources.  It makes it so players more or less set the prices for the items.  A server wide shortage on iron doesn't just mean players should mine iron, but farm and smelt down weapons in that area.

    • 1109 posts
    April 6, 2021 12:19 PM PDT

    Jobeson said: I am saddened by the idea of specialized harvesting and hope they let everyone do every harvest to make the economy focused on resources.

    I may be misunderstanding you, but hopefully you know that every player CAN Harvest every type of resource. Spec'ing just means you can improve your Harvesting in two particular kinds of resource. I don't see any way that system can harm a player's experience or the economy.

    • 42 posts
    April 6, 2021 1:32 PM PDT

    Jobeson said:

    What I hope for is to have harvesting run a large portion of the economy where minigames dont really exist.  Stand by the node, click, see short animation.  I want the "minigame" to be traveling back and processing the goods.  Leave the actual minigames for crafting itself....

     

     Yes, this is exactly what I've been hoping for as well. Short animation is good enough for harvesting. I do not need forced additional-gameplay to feel engaged.

    Additional-gameplay/"mini-game" is actually a cool idea to offset the stationary nature of crafting, but not a good idea for harvesting because we already will need to adventure to locate the node.

     

    I hope VR reconsiders forced additional-gameplay for harvesting and rather save it for Crafting, where it makes sense.

     

    • 364 posts
    April 6, 2021 1:35 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    I may be misunderstanding you, but hopefully you know that every player CAN Harvest every type of resource. Spec'ing just means you can improve your Harvesting in two particular kinds of resource. I don't see any way that system can harm a player's experience or the economy.

    Given the talk I saw it sounded like rare and legendary resources would be locked behind that specialization skill.  You won't be able to mine or salvage the rare material because you don't have the specialization skill.  In a world where the economy would be largely material driven (which I was suggesting/hoping for) I think it is an unnecessary hurdle to have in the game. 

    If VR makes the economy gold driven where drop value is determined by NPC vendors and not players consuming resources then it doesn't matter as much.  You would be selling junk items for gold as the value is defined and players do not determine their own server economy as much as they generate gold and have gold sinks.

    If teleportation consumed a diamond and players had to harvest diamonds it would eventually balance out, the market would fluctuate on highs and lows of teleportation costs. The market would allow players to go hunt for diamonds to make more money while demand is high in the select zones they are found.

    If teleportation had a set gold cost and vendors have unlimited diamonds following the standard MMO trope higher levels mean more gold dropped and items are always worth more money then that diamond becomes a meaningless price that can be ignored.  Sell a lvl 50 NPCs shoe and you can go buy a diamond because ilvl dictates value. 

    I like the idea of players running their economy through their actions.  If you want to buy diamonds you go to the auction house, not to the vendor with unlimited diamonds to sell. 

    • 1109 posts
    April 6, 2021 3:58 PM PDT

    Jobeson said:

    Given the talk I saw it sounded like rare and legendary resources would be locked behind that specialization skill.  You won't be able to mine or salvage the rare material because you don't have the specialization skill.  In a world where the economy would be largely material driven (which I was suggesting/hoping for) I think it is an unnecessary hurdle to have in the game.

    Well first, I agree with your hoped for 'material driven' economy where much - even most - of Crafting resources come from the salvage of gear, both loot drop & Crafted gear whose owner has outgrown it. My only disagreement is over the mechanic of Specialization of Harvesting skills.

     

    You hope that most resources would come from Salvaging loot rather than Harvesting nodes. The last thing we have heard is that Salvaging will be a Crafter ability, rather than a Harvest ability. So that would bypass the Harvesting Specialization 'barrier' for the resources that come from Salvaging. (Unless you disagree with Crafter Specialization, which is an entirely different conversation).

    Then, looking at the math of (currently) 6 schools of Crafting vs. only 5 Harvesting skills, and 2 Harvesting Specs vs. 1 Crafting Skill per character, I'd estimate that every type of exotic Harvestable resource for Crafting should be in the Spec choice of at least half of all Harvesters. While you can call that a barrier, I don't see it as anything you could call a 'bottleneck' to adequate supplies being available for Crafting (assuming a functional marketplace).

    In addition, those players who decides to Craft will obviously choose their Harvesting Specs based on what resources are most needed for their particular Craft. Whatever negatives may or may not result from Harvesting Specs, you can't ignore the benefit to a Crafter in being able to maximize his Harvesting of the resources he personally needs by trading off some ability to Harvest ones he doesn't need.

    Leveraging the math I referred to above to provide for one's Crafting needs, I think a Crafter would have to try very hard to wind up in a postion where they could need an exotic resource to progress in their Craft and yet be unable to directly acquire it if they so desire.

     

    In a different vein :D I can only point to some of Pantheon's tenets and principles

    No single player should be able do everything on their own

    Both adventurers and crafters will need each other

    Decisions have consequences

    Allowing every player to Harvest the most exotic and valuable resources doesn't seem to fit these principles as much as having Specialization does IMO.

    • 1833 posts
    April 6, 2021 4:31 PM PDT

    Jobeson said:

    Given the talk I saw it sounded like rare and legendary resources would be locked behind that specialization skill.  You won't be able to mine or salvage the rare material because you don't have the specialization skill.  In a world where the economy would be largely material driven (which I was suggesting/hoping for) I think it is an unnecessary hurdle to have in the game. 

    I wanted to address this part specifically so that people don't have the wrong idea.

    Right now, we're not planning on specialization gating you from gathering any resource.  What specialization does is make you much more effective.

    For example, let's assume that you and your guild manage to take down a dragon.  Congratulations!  Anyone who's picked up skinning can attempt to harvest a scale or two from that dragon.  However, if someone has specialized in skinning, and taken the time to acquire advanced techniques and tools, they'll be able to harvest many more dragon scales than someone who has not.

    I hope that helps clear up any confusion.  Specialization in gathering is all about emphasizing the areas that you care about most.  It allows you to differentiate yourself from other players who have made different choices.  What it is *not* about is locking people out of being able to gather certain things.

    With all of that said, we *do* reserve the right to lock certain resources behind specialization, but we'll only do that if we really feel like it makes sense both economically and from a lore perspective to do so.

    Hope that helps :)

    • 364 posts
    April 6, 2021 9:38 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    You hope that most resources would come from Salvaging loot rather than Harvesting nodes. The last thing we have heard is that Salvaging will be a Crafter ability, rather than a Harvest ability. So that would bypass the Harvesting Specialization 'barrier' for the resources that come from Salvaging. (Unless you disagree with Crafter Specialization, which is an entirely different conversation).

    This will turn salvaging into a hard process to do.  I was not aware it was going to be tied to crafting.  I sadly think my dream of a material based economy will be less possible with that. 

    By making it hard to access players are less likely to participate.  Sadly in turn making it more difficult to build an economy around.  Rather than a player spending time to turn their broken rusty swords, daggers, maces, spear heads, etc into iron ingots they would need to find a blacksmith or list everything individually on the AH which is a chore.  Which means they would need to list all rusty maces, daggers, swords, etc on the AH directly expecting a crafter would recycle them.  None of that seems likely to me.

    The only MMO I have ever seen that was a resource based economy is Eve online.  It is also the only Economy in an MMO that I can say was a real economy.  Logistics mattered, the economy reacted day to day to new events.  I would not have recycled all my unwanted "junk" into materials participating in the economy if I could not actually recycle them.  They didn't give you merchants with flat prices or anything.  They pushed players into the economy.  I was hoping to see a portion of that, but don't think it will be the case.