Forums » The Cleric

Do the healers need to Med?

    • 82 posts
    October 4, 2020 10:43 PM PDT

    In the class description clerics have some offensive spells and melee attacks.  Are the healers going to need to meditate (sit down) while the fight is going on to effectively maintain MP, or will they be able to continue to attacking?

    I am expecting some kind of MP management would be required, but I am hoping that it would not define my role as a healer.


    • 1714 posts
    October 5, 2020 2:19 AM PDT

    Don't know about Pantheon, but if we look back at EQ, clerics had offensive spells there as well (stuns and nukes mainly).  While they did have to sit a lot to maintain mana, a good cleric in a decent group would still be using offensive abilities and not just sit there until the next heal is required.  Especially the stuns.  Well-timed stuns could save more damage for the mana required to stun than a heal would do for the same mana.  Hopefully it will be something similar here.

    • 371 posts
    October 5, 2020 11:38 AM PDT

    From the last stream in the Dire Lords Gameplay video, they talked about trying to avoid the whole sitting in battle thing.

    The current build in testing is caster classes with have a mana refill skill but you cant do anything else while the skill is running unless you cancel out of it and it draws a ton of agro.

    This is all subject to change of course.

    • 742 posts
    October 6, 2020 5:29 PM PDT

    Here is where they showed this:

    Sept 24, 2020: (Source)

    Joppa said: "You can see that Roenick just popped 'Battle Meditation' there. Just to say a quick word about that, this is somewhat of an experiemental ability that we are trying as a form of tactical engagement for mana users in combat. Got some really good feedback from it already from internal testing. The way it works and what makes it tactical is that, as it stands right now resource regeneration shuts off in combat. So as a mana user you are not getting mana back naturally while you are in combat. What 'Battle Meditation' does is, it's on a pretty hefty cooldown, and it's only useable in combat, but as you can see it provides a really substantial amount of mana return. The catch and what makes it tactical is that while you are channelling 'Battle Meditation' you are dramatically increasing your threat towards enemies that you are in combat with, within a 30 meter radius. What that means is the longer you channel 'Battle Meditation', the longer you stay in that state regenerating Mana, the more likely it is that you are going to pull Agro off of your Tank onto you with any of the enemies you are in combat with. So it's a pretty cool risk vs reward mechanic that allows mana users to have a little bit of control over their Mana return in combat, but at pretty sizeable risk."

    Since this was a pre-recorded segment Joppa was also in Chat on Twitch answering questions, so I asked him

    GoofyWarriorGuy said: "So did I hear that correctly, other than this channeled Meditation there will be no mana regen at all in Combat, even if you sit?"

    Joppa said: "That is correct"

    So there will be no more 'sitting around' for Casters of any type during combat as this will net you nothing in extra mana regen. At least as of the way it works right now. Obviously since this is still in testing, things may change by the time the game Launches.

    Also, since they don't need to sit and meditate, Clerics will have the option to be part of the fight more while they are not actively needing to heal somebody, such as getting in there with their weapon and bashing some heads.

    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at October 6, 2020 5:37 PM PDT
    • 718 posts
    October 12, 2020 4:43 AM PDT

    This is an interesting change, and IMO will make mana management a lot more challenging. Groups camping in one spot won't be affected much by it, but I think it could be pretty bad for groups that want to move around, since healers and casters will need to meditate after most fights.

    I like the idea of the battle meditation, but I wonder about the "hefty" cooldown. It would be ok for me if it was usable every second or third fight, but if it had an hour-long (or worse) cooldown, it would make this a very niche ability.

    • 742 posts
    October 13, 2020 5:33 AM PDT

    Sarim said: "I wonder about the "hefty" cooldown"

    Lol. Joppa does seem to throw out these non-specific type terms. Is 'Hefty' larger or smaller than 'sizable'?

    Sarim said: "It would be ok for me if it was usable every second or third fight, but if it had an hour-long (or worse) cooldown, it would make this a very niche ability."

    I would think that the tuning of this greatly depends on how long it would take a player to use up all their mana in a fight. If you were continually casting (dependent on threat of course) until you were out of mana... the cooldown on 'Battle Meditation' would need to be a bunch (non-specific terms again lol) longer than the time it would take you to run out of mana. So if a full burn took 1 minute of chain casting, then 'Battle Meditation' would need to be say 2 minutes cooldown. If a full mana burn took 2 minutes, then 'Battle Meditation' might need to be 4 minutes. If a full burn took 5 minutes maybe 'Battle Med' would need to be 8 minutes cooldown, etc...

    In normal fighting for exp you may not really need to use it that much since you may not need to use a full bar of mana on every fight, and you will have a little down time between pulls to regen up that mana. But in a more extended fight with several enemies, or maybe a named mini-boss style fight, this 'Battle Meditation' will become key and will probably only be able to be used once during that fight, and then won't be available again for a few minutes, so another larger pull could be troublesome if it happens right away.

    We will have to wait and see how they balance it.

    • 1846 posts
    October 13, 2020 2:03 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Joppa said: " as it stands right now resource regeneration shuts off in combat. So as a mana user you are not getting mana back naturally while you are in combat. "

    Since Joppa said resource regeneration rather than mana regeneration, I find myself wondering how this will work for a melee fighter's Endurance. My memory of watching bars in past streams is that Endurance went down quickly for melees but regenerated more quickly than either mana or health.

    This is going to be a very interesting change if they decide to keep it.


    Sarim said: I wonder about the "hefty" cooldown.

    I agree with Goofy that the cooldown is likely to be a number of minutes, probably in the single digits. Because this ability is going to be needed on a regular basis in combat - at least as it seems to work presently - and an hour cooldown realistically makes it like you describe, a niche ability you can use occasionally as a 'save the day' event.

    • 677 posts
    October 27, 2020 12:33 PM PDT
    Since Battle Med generates a progressively larger amount of aggro, that alone could be enough downside to balance it, without the need for a really long cool-down. That would especially be the case if it returned diminished mana initially, since that would force you to use it for a while to get any real mana return. Resource management is important but if we're frequently running out, that goes from challenging to boring/frustrating.