Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Group Makeup?

    • 9115 posts
    September 10, 2020 3:55 AM PDT

    Community Debate - In your opinion, what is the most important class in a general group makeup in an MMORPG like Pantheon - Tank, Healer, DPS or Support and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 729 posts
    September 10, 2020 4:53 AM PDT

    This feels like asking 'What is the most important part of an airplane?"

    The cockpit, the wings, the engine or the wheels?

       In regard to Pantheon, I would say the class is irrelevant, and teamwork is imperative.

      BUT IF I HAD TO CHOOSE: my answer is ; Whatever role the Ranger plays.  The rangers, always there to allow you 'one trick ponies' to feel like your vital to the group ;P


    This post was edited by StoneFish at September 10, 2020 4:54 AM PDT
    • 47 posts
    September 10, 2020 5:30 AM PDT
    As a Quick Reply, StoneFish is right : A group should be targeted around a ranger. Well... No ! 2 rangers, or even 3 ! :)
    Let's hope no class will be essential. And all groups will be viable as long as they are balanced.
    From the target perspective, I'm afraid some groups will need more specific requirements, like an enchanter to take Care of extra mobs, or an offtank to remove healer from boss, or a dps threshold to manage waves of adds... Or a combination of all thid.
    It's ok as long as it doesn't become the rule for EVERY encounter.
    • 627 posts
    September 10, 2020 5:37 AM PDT
    Healer is the core of the grp, without him, everyone is at danger and very limited options are available. With a healer you can do most content.

    But in mmos and hopefuly more in pantheon then ever seen before you depend on your team mates in order to suceed.
    • 438 posts
    September 10, 2020 6:03 AM PDT
    Gotta go with a healer. A sub par tank with a great healer makes that tank look like a stud. DPS has always been a dime a dozen. Second place imo is an outstanding CC specialist.
    • 2756 posts
    September 10, 2020 6:05 AM PDT

    Pantheon is the chance to make ALL classes matter again.

    In a game tuned and balanced right, you need to take damage (tank) and survive (heal), of course, BUT if you don't do it quick enough (DPS) or control the battlefield (CC) you will fail.

    The trick is to design encounters to need all that, BUT not to make non-optimal combos impossible...

    Good luck with that, VR!


    This post was edited by disposalist at September 10, 2020 6:05 AM PDT
    • 394 posts
    September 10, 2020 8:39 AM PDT

    Kinda depends on who you ask.

    Tank will stand there arms at their sides and say its them.

    Healers will call you all hopeless idiots without them.

    And there goes the dps off getting killed.

    • 523 posts
    September 10, 2020 9:39 AM PDT

    Kinda depends on the game to me, but using original EQ as a guide, I think it has to be the healer.  In a group setting, some DPS (Monk), Mage, Necro, Chanter, even a Cleric can tank and hold aggro.  So, it's not the tank "class" that is most important, though something in a tanking "role" is pretty essential.  Question is about the class though.  A tank and healer can whittle down a mob, though the pace is not ideal, DPS is not always necessary.  Control/Support classes, while awesome for quality of life improvements in a group, are not always needed, especially with CC abilities sprinkled amongst the other classes like Root, Fear, and of course good old fashioned offtanking.  The healer though, outside of kiting or dot/rot techniques which are limited in where you can perform them, seems completely necessary at almost all times.  Final answer.

    • 903 posts
    September 10, 2020 9:46 AM PDT
    Every team needs a heal monkey. Without a healer, who will you blame for the wipe when DPS pulls adds when the tank is at 15% HP and out of mana?
    • 560 posts
    September 10, 2020 4:22 PM PDT

    StoneFish said:

    This feels like asking 'What is the most important part of an airplane?"

    The cockpit, the wings, the engine or the wheels?

    This made me laugh and I also think it is my answer.

     

    • 1618 posts
    September 10, 2020 5:16 PM PDT

    Counterfleche said: Every team needs a heal monkey. Without a healer, who will you blame for the wipe when DPS pulls adds when the tank is at 15% HP and out of mana?

    Exactly!

    • 2644 posts
    September 10, 2020 8:24 PM PDT

    The most important class in pretty much every group I've ever played in was....the class that I was playing! How could it be any other way?

    If it wasn't for that class, I wouldn't have been in that group and possibly not even in that game. What could be more important than that?

     

    Silly Kilsin!

    • 178 posts
    September 10, 2020 8:53 PM PDT

    I am going to go with utility (support).

    When I started on this road with EQ oh those many years ago, I played with a buddy from work for pretty much my two years worth of EQ. We had no idea what was or was not a group make up. I wanted to be a rogue and he wanted to be an enchanter. We didn't actually start playng together until maybe 3 weeks after launch, but at that point we were set. Rogue and Enchanter. We'd look for groups, we'd join groups, we'd have people join us. Except on weekends when we'd join up with our regular group of friends and play for 3 - 4 hours.

    We had to figure out how to play and to survive with no healer. Sure we wiped - but we got better. But even now you have to admit Rogue and Enchanter is a pretty odd combination. But with so much time invested in our characters (as casual players, time was basically weeks and months of invested effort that couldn't be made up). Back then DPS wasn't a category. CC wasn't a category. Those definitions came later. We threw everything we could at playing. We strategized and tried different things. And in a group we just expanded on what we were doing. It made for a lot of fun play. Especially in a PUG and someone would give the word to "bail" or "flee." and we'd say "No!" We got this.

    Now everyone has this notion that a group has to have a healer and a tank and then you fill in the rest with arguments about what to fill in next. But to have fun I like the adventure, the on your toes, the unconventional, the making it work, not getting bored, not always doing the same old thing. Being able to adapt is what it's all about. So I will say utility - because it's that little bit of extra, the unconventional, the lone voice that makes it fun, different, and wanting to go more. It's the difference between same old same old and just a little bit of something new.


    This post was edited by muscoby at September 10, 2020 8:56 PM PDT
    • 936 posts
    September 11, 2020 2:05 AM PDT

    I think this is a mute question really, in a tough area; without heals the group dies; without dps the group dies; without crowd control the groups dies; without a damage soak the group dies. In my opinion, a well balanced group is the most important aspect; no single type is more important.


    I personally dont put too much importance on this though. I am happy to play solo, be in small groups or full groups. I just go about the game differently depending. The one thing that is constent is that I am grouped with friends or aquaintences (soon to be friends) that play the same way as I do and people I can have a fun with. So I will always try to make what we have available work in some way. There are always exceptions to this though; if someone needs a difficult drop or kill then obviously setting up a well balanced group for that purpose is important, but 90% of the time, its the loose fun aspect I want.

    • 220 posts
    September 11, 2020 4:42 AM PDT

    The Entertainer.

    • 3852 posts
    September 11, 2020 7:11 AM PDT

    I will go with the obvious answer. The most important role is the one you do not have. Traditionally tanks are hardest to get with healers a close second but that doesn't make them more important - it just makes them harder to get.

    • 769 posts
    September 11, 2020 11:55 AM PDT

    I would say utility. A meatshield and a heal wounds groupmember is nice and practical. But utility puts in the flavour of the experience. Otherwise, combat is as dry as a bone and in danger of becoming repetitive and stale. The complexity of encounters just increases quite a lot and that could provide a wide variety of combat strategies.

    Don't think that I can't read through those lines, Kilsin ! 

    • 30 posts
    September 11, 2020 12:14 PM PDT
    Situational on the group composition and area the camp is in. Overall, a generalized answer for your question is a rezzer. Early during my eq days groups would be looking for a healer and I'd answer the call as a shaman. Person would message me back saying " No thank you, we'd prefer to have a rezzer".

    Let's say your group is in an inside dungeon and have just reached the 2nd floor with no other groups. Unable to root because the dungeon is indoors and unable to fear or flash of light due to the floor not being broken. An awesome puller that can split mobs would be my first pick as primary; if not, then a good crowd control class(which I would include pet classes)
    • 5 posts
    September 12, 2020 5:35 PM PDT

    The answer is the least played class. My time playing eq1 it was enchanter. A strong, efficient group needed that cc to grind out xp and more often than not, enchanters were not only picked over, no other class could fill that role.

    I bet there will be a huge amount of dps , a good amount of tanks, a fair amount of healers, and lastly, a few enchanters LFG in pantheon.

    So make an enchanter if you want an instant group invite.

    • 1484 posts
    September 13, 2020 3:37 AM PDT

    At low levels I'd say a healer is the most sought because any melee class could reasonnably tank for a group, sot he most important thing would be cutting the downtime with heals.

     

    With level getting higher and armor type, base health and defensive capabilities tied with threat, tank will slowly rise to be extremely sought, especially if they have a low representation due to slower levelling and lack of helps from others. It usually goes to "will you sacrifice a bit of your speed to help slow killers to levelup, so you won't be starving for them in later stages", but players usually only focus on themselves. At this point, healer and tank will be the to go combo and hardly any content will be doable withouth both of them, so I'd say 50/50 there.

    • 903 posts
    September 13, 2020 9:31 AM PDT
    @Barin999,
    I completely agree. Having diverse types of support keeps combat interesting because we are modifying how we play from group to group due to the different strategic and tactical options made available by the different types of support.
    • 29 posts
    September 16, 2020 5:20 AM PDT

    StoneFish said:

    This feels like asking 'What is the most important part of an airplane?"

    The cockpit, the wings, the engine or the wheels?

     

    This is the truth :)

    Sorry for editing out the ranger stuff from the quote because that's obviously false information...

    • 817 posts
    September 16, 2020 2:12 PM PDT

    Obvious truth is for pretty much every generic MMO Tank and healer are most important. 

    A tank or healer will massively change the groups survivability for the better or worse.  A good DPS will never have as much of an effect on the group. Any positive effect they do have is usually support and not DPS.

    There may be a few exceptions to this such as a DPS with perfect interrupts will counter caster fights, but tanks often have interrupts too so a good tank would have that same opportunity.  Debuffing the damage of various creatures or stunning them at ideal times would be helpful but in the end you are just helping do a part of what the healer / tank are doing.  

     

    CC will likely be the wildcard of Pantheon.  Potentially a third pillar to rival Tanks and Healers or potentially it will follow other games and be more or less "optional" so a group without a CC would be better off in many camps. 

    I hope to be surprised with Pantheon and that classes will come together to shake the generic group makeup.  I miss the root and dot groups, pet groups, charm groups, we would see in EQ.  Every other MMO requires tank and spank.  EQ had that feel of the tabletop games where a group of misfits could come together and pull off crazy plans.  5 wizards and a druid LFG? Lets make a group! 

    • 58 posts
    September 16, 2020 10:40 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - In your opinion, what is the most important class in a general group makeup in an MMORPG like Pantheon - Tank, Healer, DPS or Support and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    This is a question I have asked myself awhile ago and I have come to the conclusion the Tank is the most important for the group makeup, and the one that requires the most effort.  To be a functional part of the group they need to be equal or higher level, solid gear, and adequate level of abilities.

    1) Good gear would allow for a lower level or weak healer to keep the group alive.

    2) Strong abilities allow DPS to go all out and keep aggro.

    3) Need to be well played or aggro bounces and allows Healer/DPS to die.

    I have found that the tank can make or break the group, great healers can make up for shortcomings weak group but not a poor tank, and good DPS are great if they stay alive.

     

     

    • 30 posts
    September 17, 2020 7:03 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - In your opinion, what is the most important class in a general group makeup in an MMORPG like Pantheon - Tank, Healer, DPS or Support and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

     

    Yes.